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  Severe the Ordeals
Social Justice Posted by Xnoubis on September 11, 2001 @ 09:51 AM
from the torah-torah-torah dept.
Hail! ye twin warriors about the pillars of the world! for your time is nigh at hand. -- AL III:71

Thanks to Peter Grey for pointing this out.


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    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @10:54AM
    Am i missing something, or have you gone completely insane?!!!

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Xnoubis on Tuesday September 11, @11:13AM
      It seems that the world has -- or soon will be.

      The quote is merely suggestive. What we have today is an act of war that changes everything. Probably for the worse, although there's always the possibility that the world will realize that we absolutely can't go on as we have.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @12:14PM
        Let me go on a limb by saying this is long overdue. I think such act of war is *crucial* to humanities existance. I think the terror is NOT or has not been commenced fully enough.

        I mean, WORLD TRADE centre...! We all know what this war is about , but if we still refuse to believe in its cause we just might perish under the Marxist plan.

        My reaction is a "Hell Yeah!" And so should be yours! -if you knew what's good for you.... They say its an attack on democracy, but really it is a war FOR TRUE democracy.

        We shall see, in due time...?


        • Re: Severe the Ordeals
          by Mordecai on Tuesday September 11, @01:15PM
          We don't yet know who the authors of this outrage are, but if it turns out to be the work of Muslim fanatics would you still think they are working for "TRUE DEMOCRACY"? I mean, considering that they would gladly execute every Thelemite if they could, would you still support their campaign of murder and destruction?


          • Re: Severe the Ordeals
            by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @04:19PM
            [In the Shells]




            • Re: Severe the Ordeals
              by Mordecai on Tuesday September 11, @04:39PM
              >Who doesn't support a campaign against the marxist government?

              And what the "campaigners" want to replace it with is of absolutely no import?


              • Re: Severe the Ordeals
                by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @05:20PM
                Revenge? You've never sought revenge? You've never stood your ground? I assure you there are people who value their lives beyond anything you could ever conceive of... enough to die for it.


                • Re: Severe the Ordeals
                  by Mordecai on Tuesday September 11, @05:58PM
                  Sure, revenge is an entirely understandable motivation, but when the "marxist state" takes its revenge in turn will you support them? Somehow, I don't think so. I don't think the issue for you is revenge, but ideology, and again I ask, do you really favor the imposition by force of Taliban-style regimes?


            • Re: Severe the Ordeals
              by Fra THA;M on Tuesday September 11, @05:20PM
              "Who doesn't support a campaign against the marxist government?"

              The government, unfortunately, is nowhere near marxist. And I for one don't.


              • Re: Severe the Ordeals
                by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @05:33PM
                You, sadly, do not know what is taking place. Republican and Democrat are two sides of Marxism, but you're too blind to see what is happening.

                You probably don't even know what marxism is; you probably never read the communist manifest; or if you did you would not be able to pick out the lies and indecencies which it involves, both historically and humanely.

                So such a quote as "The government, unfortunately, is nowhere near marxist" is pathetic in my eyes.

                Unfortunately??? Oh, now I see!


                • Re: Severe the Ordeals
                  by Fra THA;M on Tuesday September 11, @09:32PM
                  In a marxist state the workers own the means of production, and reap the subsequent monetary advantage. In the current political model, a corporate/consumer model, the means of production and accumulation of wealth is by an elite few. We get thrown crumbs and call it quality of life. While there are inherent problems of self-determinism in marxism, these can be overcome in an anarcho-syndaclism closely related to marxist ideology.

                  The notion that the current government is in anyway Marxist comes from an opinion which is both uninformed and myopic...or maybe the jews have got to me whoahahahah (sinister laugh).

                  Sad.


        • Re: Severe the Ordeals
          by Fra THA;M on Tuesday September 11, @01:45PM
          [In the Shells]



    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @11:07AM
    Correction: I'd say the time is now:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/

    http://www.google.com/currentevents/attacks.html

    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @12:17PM
    Mind you the above quote was written an hundred years ago.....what about now?

    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by retching on Tuesday September 11, @12:19PM
    oh please. i thought people might be posting some emotional reactions, thoughts about terrorism, etc. regarding the attack. but this quote??? i suppose, much like the bible, one can pull almost whatever quote they want (if they look hard enough) to say told-you-so.

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Martin Hettland on Thursday September 13, @06:43AM
      Thought about terrorism.

      Strange that groups of only 3-5 persons could manage to controll so many people in the airplanes that chrashed into buildings.

      I guess the passengers and crews in the airplanes did not expect that the terrorists intended to kill them-and many others-from the beginning.
      Neither did the majority of victims of the Nazi
      crimes against Humanity expect the intention of the Nazis.

      My hope is that the failure of one terrorist group to hit any target, was du to the passengers and crew of this airplain fighting back.

      To me "Do what you will shall be...." means doing/expressing your will as opposed to surpressing your will.

      Doing your (true)will under a terrorist attack will for most of us mean fighting back.

      The powers that be describe this terroist act as being directed against the siviliced world, but after the planned and organised masskillings in the past we should not permit ourselfes to be naiv.
      Being siviliced as you are conditioned to be by society, and ordered to be by most of its leaders, is just what the terrorists want you to.

      Martin Hattland.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Martin Hettland on Thursday September 13, @07:00AM
        Behaving siviliced to someone attacking you is for most of us a failure do what we will in such a situation, and instead doing what the terrosist will, namely to lead you in to a well planed and organised slaughter.

        Martin Hettland


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Tim Maroney on Tuesday September 11, @01:54PM
    An apparently bogus Nostradamus statement is making the rounds:

    "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb."

    The problem is that I can only find one place on the web where this appears, A Critical Analysis of Nostradamus, where it appears to be a deliberately made-up example of a vague prophecy which could apply to many different events.

    I did not find the quote at the Nostradamus Repository.

    I am not an expert on Nostradamus, however, and I would be interested to hear that this quote is authentic after all.

    Tim

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @04:36PM
      Nostradamus was a prophet who never spoke of future prophecy but of the ordeals within attaining altered states. I thought you knew this?

      The City of God is not on the earth. The two brothers are emotional responses in oppositon while in heavy trance state. The fortress is dimension, and the leader the watcher upon the tower. Just like Liber 418 is it?


    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by retching on Wednesday September 12, @08:43AM
      tim-- i have seen that quote posted in several places. nope, it's not true-- it was made up to show how easily vague "prophesies" can be invented. check out http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Tim Maroney on Wednesday September 12, @09:40AM
        it's not true-- it was made up to show how easily vague "prophesies" can be invented.

        That's what I already pointed out: "it appears to be a deliberately made-up example of a vague prophecy which could apply to many different events."

        Tim


    • Re: Nostradamus
      by Rafael Kitover on Friday September 14, @06:33PM
      Another one making the rounds is at least much more interesting:

      Century 6, Quatrain 97

      The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude,
      Fire approaches the great new city [New York City lies between 40-45 degrees]
      Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
      When they want to have verification from the Normans [French].

      Of course this is sufficiently vague so it could mean a nuclear strike, or a random juxtaposition of words and the number 45, among other things. Some people used it for the TWA crash. BTW, I don't think the word "latitude" actually appears in the original french manuscript...


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by nexist on Tuesday September 11, @03:10PM
    While I think that such a come-uppance for the US and its imperialistic designs has been long overdue, I am hardly so callous as to be unmoved about the loss of life -- even if it is but a drop in the bucket compared to the blood we have spilled in our role as 'Bully of the World'.

    It is a strange feeling to be mourning and celebrating at the same time.

    Horribly weird

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @04:43PM
      I hate to make such a sweeping judgment but those in the world trade center were probably not innocent... communist, perhaps? And as for the pentagon, who really cares?

      All I heard in the media was "oh, we've lost billions for closing up shop!" Your own country doesn't give a damn about life--it's all about money and power.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by nexist on Tuesday September 11, @05:03PM
        Last I checked, being a Communist was not a Capital Crime -- then again, the World Trade Center is blatant agent of global capitalism.

        Regardless, I give a damn. I am not 'my government', I have a higher set of standards.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Fra THA;M on Tuesday September 11, @05:23PM
        Communist? My god, man! Their heads are shoved Right(wing) up their asses! If only we were a little more socialist.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Shasu Ma'akheru on Wednesday September 12, @12:46AM
        I hate to make such a sweeping judgment but those in the world trade center were probably not innocent.

        Some of the people in those towers were friends of mine, and at least one of them was a Thelemite of the highest possible caliber. For want of a better way to put it, fuck you.

        Your mind is obviously caught in the same kind of shallow, stereotyped thinking that Thelema was meant to crush under its heel. There were as many as 50,000 people in the WTC -- a cross-section of Manhattan as surely as Manhattan is a cross-section of the western world -- and any generalization about "them" is hogwash.

        You keep blathering nonsensically about communism and capitalism. So far as I can tell, Liber AL mentions neither specifically, but it does roundly denounce mass ideologies of all stripes. If you want to play those kinds of mental self-mutilation games, go renew your church membership and join one of the two major political parties. The Archie Bunker act will be better appreciated there.


        • Re: Severe the Ordeals
          by Xnoubis on Wednesday September 12, @08:27AM
          Good points about over-generalization and mass ideology. I hope we'll try to steer clear from directing personal remarks at postings that are obviously inviting them, since they can easily drown out everything else.


        • Re: Severe the Ordeals
          by Mordecai on Wednesday September 12, @09:50AM
          There is something seriously wrong with those people who can't put themselves in the place of someone who lost a friend or relative in this horrific act. It's such a colossal failure of imagination. How could such wretches ever hope to understand that love is the law? Be assured you have the support of most of us.


    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Fra THA;M on Tuesday September 11, @05:25PM
      Amen, brother (in a solemn tone).


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Xnoubis on Tuesday September 11, @03:34PM
    I've been watching the televised coverage of the event for a few hours now, and I'm struck to see the war machine get into gear so quickly.

    At this point, I'd foresee the U.S. making a list of demands to Afghanistan that they will refuse (including the demand that we come in and seize all of bin Laden's people and property remaining there), and then declaring war -- a huge, messy, and ugly proposition that will only cause terrorism to escalate around the world.

    "Remember, they're not Afghan hounds anymore, they're Barakzais. And those knitted afghans? They're just good old blankets. "

    Also, I think we can pretty much kiss freedom from online surveillance goodbye, at the very least.

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by J. A. on Tuesday September 11, @04:33PM
      Ah, but we never had online freedom, remember project carnivore?


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Mordecai on Tuesday September 11, @04:43PM
        Sadly, I must agree. The illusion of online freedom is mainly a way of lulling people into carelessly revealing too much.


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by MAXOMENOS on Tuesday September 11, @05:03PM
    I'm ready for war. I'm itching for it. I want to see those wastes of food who did this destroyed, their families destroyed, their friends destroyed, their assets seized. It is time to strike unholy terror into the hearts of our enemies, to make them fear and beg for mercy and for their entrails to be spilled upon the dust as we laugh at their pain and the pain of their loved ones. I want to see a jihad against those responsible. Let there be no quarter, no argument, no resolve but to cause unspeakable and horrific pain upon those responsible.

    Let us not forget that what happened today is the equivalent of wiping out an entire town or a small city. It is genocide, and the price for genocide must be utter destruction.

    There is evidence that Osama Bin Laden is responsible for this act. Should this be found to be the case, he and his entire family must be destroyed, his followers destroyed, his name forbidden to whisper. We must carry the fight to them, and crush them underneath our righteous heels.

    I pledge my soul to this act in the name of all that I hold holy and sacred, in the name of Ra Hoor Khuit, in the name of Hecate who crushes the oppressor beneath her heel. There can be no resolution to this act but destruction; let us therefore unleash destruction upon the Earth.

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Tim Maroney on Tuesday September 11, @05:12PM
      Great idea. I'm sure the survivors and the families of the killed won't be hell-bent on revenge or anything.

      Making the world better by perpetuating the cycle of violence,
      Tim


    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Fra THA;M on Tuesday September 11, @05:26PM
      And as for you...give your head a shake.


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by john-a-dreams on Tuesday September 11, @05:58PM
    I AGREE WITH TIM......
    BUT BEFORE WE EVEN SPEAK A WORD OF REVENGE WE SHOULD TAKE A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR THE VICTIMS AND THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS OF THIS HORRIBLE TRAGEDY....AND HAVE GRATITUDE FOR NOT BEING VICTIMS OURSELVES......
    THIS IS GOING TO BE QUITE A TEST AHEAD...FOR OUR COUNTRY(WHETHER WE AGREE WITH IT OR NOT IT IS STILL OUR COUNTRY).....AND PRETTY MUCH FOR THE WORLD.
    THIS TRAGEDY MUST NOT GO UNPUNISHED . BUT MAY WE SEEK JUSTICE AND KEEP OUR INNOSENSE ASWELL .
    "LOVE IS THE LAW, LOVE UNDER WILL"

    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Sad on Tuesday September 11, @06:24PM
    Everything is polarizing. We can expect black and white dualism to intensify. The middle way will give place to rigid fundamentalism, and harsh loyalty and identity based positioning.

    Witchhunts will begin. The system is furthered on its way to locking down. Fear will rule.

    Karma will be created in reactionary ways.

    Its gonna get alot worse.

    What can we do? Go inside. Claim the Still Voice of peace within. Listen to the calm of intuition that emerges in the clarity of nature.

    Spend time by the sea, or out in the forest. Listen to birds. Watch the moon and stars in the sky. Know there is a deeper and wiser order than that which mankind has created.

    Dwell in this. Know this truth. Be this truth. Share it with your community, your friends, your lovers.

    On the other side of the warlike violence of Horus is the peaceful integrated Harmony and Truth of Maat.

    Seek, to cross that gap yourself, and be that beacon of truth for a world on the brink.

    Love is the Law, Love Under Will.

    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by jazzcat on Tuesday September 11, @08:58PM
    ...JIHAD 93/11

    the real jihad
    is within!

    without is always a bust!

    I'm busted, cuz I never fit in

    but today is my birthday, HELLO!

    remember sept 11 73'?

    I guess nazi guy, thinks Aliende
    should have been overtrown in a bloody
    coup by Pinoshet! and CIA
    its that old if it ain't nazi it must be communist
    Marx, really IS Groucho!!! and Lenin really IS
    John!


    hello Tim how about a big push the button on old jazzcat?...I'm sure your world will be a safer place, hope all you yuppies are real sorry and outraged, thelema never dies, it just went underground!...that and mad magazine!

    you all get the blooper Chaos award
    Groucho masks for all!!!...don't be so
    somber, Hail warriors!!!..
    why so suprised?

    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Xnoubis on Wednesday September 12, @12:08AM
    Suppose war is inevitable. Can we hope for any good to come from it? I hope, for one thing, that the Afghani people wind up with a better government than they had under the Russians or have under the Taliban.

    Idries Shah, the rascal Sufi writer, also wrote a gung-ho war novel about the Afghan resistance to the Russian occupation called Kara Kush, which I highly recommend. It makes the Afghani rebels seem totally heroic. Of course, it was written entirely before the Taliban.

    If we occupy -- I mean, "liberate" -- Afghanistan, maybe we can at least hope for some kind of Marshall Plan for the area. The Afghans could do worse than an American-backed Islamic Democratic Republic or some such.

    What else? It's seemed to me that we've had an economic World Order for some time now, and I was hoping that what we'd next develop would be the Justice system for that Order. Now it appears that we'll develop the Military system of that Order next instead. Maybe we can work towards the Justice system after that?

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Rodney Orpheus on Wednesday September 12, @12:21PM
      Ummm.. didn't the Taliban liberate Afganistan from the Russians using CIA arms, finance, and training in the first place? Another triumph for American foreign policy...


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Mordecai on Wednesday September 12, @12:34PM
        No, actually the Taliban didn't liberate Afghanistan from the Russians; that was the variety of groups lumped together as "mujahideen", and yes, some of those people were funded by the CIA, among others, but these groups quickly fell out among themselves, and it was their "warlordism" and lack of commitment to totally fanatical fundamentalism that inspired the creation of the Taliban in the Afghan refugee camps of Pakistan. The myth that the US somehow has direct responsibility for the Taliban is widespread, but untrue. Not that US policy has been either wise or principled, but why blame them for what they didn't do when there is so much to actually blame them for?


        • Re: Severe the Ordeals
          by Fra THA;M on Wednesday September 12, @01:22PM
          Don't forget that the major causes of Russian withdrawl from Afganistan was a decline in public support at home and low morale among soviet troops. This was a direct result of heavy casualities inflicted by the mujahideen using american supplied armaments (which were partly funded by mujahideen drug production), specifically stingers that were downing unprecendented numbers of attack helicopters. The U.S was instrumental in paving the way for the Taliban.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Xnoubis on Wednesday September 12, @01:19PM
        It's true that the use of American force is much more likely to lead to bad results than good. What America should be doing is examining it's own role in alienating the people of the world. I don't think that's likely to happen at the top levels of government, though.

        Given that the U.S. is going to get forceful, I just hope some intelligence is applied to what kind of world will be in place afterwards.


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by King Knave on Wednesday September 12, @12:37AM
    from the anagramicon...

    SEVERE THE ORDEALS
    Love her Steed,Ares.
    Ares, he'd steer Love.

    nice to see you various and sundried folks here
    tonight.

    Remember what you say,
    "LOVE is the Law"
    not fear.

    fear=WAR

    It may be interesting to go back in to the archives of the Beast Bay to the archive "Why a war god" to see what we had to say about this mythogog….<?>


    ...is it me or do you wanna just beat Gee Dub about the head and shoulders whenever he opens his
    fucking mouth.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Don't you wonder,what your under?
    Under fire, under thunder.
    sail the sky in friendly flight
    hug the earth some starlit night.
    under God, under heaven
    under stars you count to seven.
    Under fire, under pressure.
    Undercover
    Dig For Treasure.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I see a sheet of glass
    stretchingacross
    a barren expanse.

    don't you?



    B.

    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Pan699 on Wednesday September 12, @03:28AM
    Has anybody else noticed the numbers involved in these attacks? The flight numbers I've heard have been 11, 93, and 77. The two towers were 110 stories each making a grand total of 220. The fact that they were twin and blasted (Blasted Tower=Mars=Heru-Ra-Ha=Twins) is also noteworthy. Seems like Cosmic Coincidence Central is speaking through this one. Whats it mean? I don't know but it seems to be inspiring both Martial and Compassionate energy at the same time...

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Fra THA;M on Wednesday September 12, @11:09AM
      Has there been any correct publications of the Book of The Law lately?


    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Jim Atria on Thursday September 13, @07:43AM
      Flight 11 held 92 people--9=2 -> Magus/Chokmah. 9+2=11. Also there was a crew of 11 and 81 passengers.

      Flight 175 held 65 people. 6+5=11. Also there was a crew of 9 and 56 passengers.

      Flight 93 held 45 people. 4+5 = 9. There was a crew of 7 with 38 (3+8=11) passengers.

      Flight 77 held 64 people. There was a crew of 6 and 58 passengers.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Jim Atria on Tuesday September 18, @04:26PM
        Update
        Flight 93 actually held 44 people as one passenger booked two seats. 44 being the number of DM: blood.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Nekial on Thursday September 20, @09:15PM
        It happened on the eleventh and the towers themselves form an eleven.


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by King Knave on Wednesday September 12, @10:05AM
    There seems to be an awful lot of talk of evil in response to the attack on our "Crown Jewel"of the East.

    The one thing
    the ONLY thing that gives me intellectual comfort in this time of
    cold shiver, is the undeniable,absolute FACT that
    Evil serves Good.
    Always.

    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Ulan Batar on Wednesday September 12, @12:12PM
    I know I'm gonna get flamed (or worse) for the following. To me this type of terrorist act and the investigation following reminds too much of the "Oklahoma City Building" bombing. I never believed McVeigh blew up the building, even after he confessed. I thought that the whole investigation which led to his arrest was a farce.
    The investigators already had a profile in mind. It wasn't so unique that many of my friends would not fit into it. It was just a matter of time to find someone to fit that profile.
    Also, it happened around the time when Clinton wanted more police force, and was met with resistance from human rights groups. The OKC explosion removed all such resistance.

    This time around Bush has resistance getting his missle defence system approved. I wonder how much difficulty he will have now. Unfortunately, very little of what I know about the WTC destruction suggests that the notion of this being an inside job is an impossibility.

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Mordecai on Wednesday September 12, @12:41PM
      >This time around Bush has resistance getting his missle defence system approved.
      >I wonder how much difficulty he will have now.

      Possibly even more difficulty. I have already seen a number of letters to the editor and newspaper editorials pointing out that this is exactly the sort of attack that "Star Wars" would be useless against, and warning against using terrorism as a pretext to sign on to Bush's pipedream.


    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Fra THA;M on Wednesday September 12, @01:08PM
      I have been pursuing a similar line of inquiry myself. Not only will international sympathy foster an environment where the missile defense shield is made more palatable to other nations, but will also allow the US stranglehold over foreign nation to be tightened. Time will tell, but remember that it it is all too easy to fall into the trap of conspiratorial speculations.

      I fear it is going to be a dangerous time, and public sympathy for leftist protest shall drastically decline, and government sanctioned violence agaisnt such groups shall be condoned. Scary stuff.


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Ulan Batar on Wednesday September 12, @02:58PM
    true, missle defense system won't protect against such type of terrorist attacks, but the sentiment for the system will probably rise.
    Another piece of argument towards the theory of a high level conspiracy is that the Russian special ops (spetznaz) some days before it happened warned the US of this type of operation being planned to be carried out. Obviously the warning was ignored.

    Is this even more like perl-harbor, where Roosevelt knew of the impending attack and did not take the precaucionary measures in order to have more leverage in the senate for declaring war?

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by J. A. on Wednesday September 12, @06:24PM
      *We're all stars now...
      ...In the dope show!*


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Alex Chapunoff on Wednesday September 12, @05:26PM
    I've already noticed a tendency for people, at the local level and in the media, to state assumptions and beliefs as though they were facts. It's helpful to be vigilant of this tendency, not only as it arises from within our minds but as we face it externally -- to not get carried away or swallowed up by the memes (thought "viruses") which will be sweeping the land, often reinforced by the media but sometimes also by our friends and neighbors.

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Ulan Batar on Wednesday September 12, @09:10PM
      that is true, and perhaps goes more to the bottom of the whole affair than any other post here.


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by jazzcat on Thursday September 13, @03:34AM
    ...the leader of the dope show, pipes in!!!

    Remember the first casuality in war is sanity!

    oh the spin mysters, sure are milken that one...

    i think no one here is suprised that, the cock
    has come home to crow,(CROWLEY)...(*)(*)!!!

    you simply can't go around bullying the whole planet, (shiteHouse)...without someone somewhere
    getting thier act together enought, to blast
    our friken towers op (BLACKop)??? the yinyang!

    why innocent people?...and not targeting
    the elites...!???...EH!!!

    comeon people I expect big thangs from ya all!!!

    well for one that blasted tower thang, IS ON TV!!!
    playing endless loops in you empty rattle haed!

    and it is no coincedence that 11 and 93 comes up
    there is a lot of shyte flippen around this
    psychic manipulation, manipulation of the masses
    goosen the sob factor umpteen times, and yes
    is is sad sad sad, and it makes em mad mad mad!

    remember the Gulph war, wasn't it video cool?
    infrared tracer bullits between football...?

    this is da jazzcat, flipin ya a fish head!

    Oh and remember if it ain't white its black!!!

    well gray might have sumtin to say bout dat dare!

    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by Lee on Thursday September 13, @09:45AM
    [In the Shells]


    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Mordecai on Thursday September 13, @11:04AM
      While I also am horrified by the post this guy is responding to, I can't help but see his response, the blindly indiscriminate need for animalistic revenge, as far more indicative of the kind of monsters who can carry out this kind of act of terrorism than of civilized human beings. Yes, I want the authors of this deed to be hunted down and punished, but I can't help feeling that their babies are as innocent as any baby lost in the WTC daycare centers.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Fra THA;M on Thursday September 13, @02:07PM
        It is all too easy to label the authors of this atrocity as evil. The fact that so many individuals have lost their lives fills me with the profoundest sadness. But like you say, the perpetrators of this act have families, friends, and were willing to sacrafice their lives for what they beleived in. Don't imagine that they were so absolutely callous as not to calculate the cost in human suffering. We have to be wary of depersonalizing these people...assuming it was with glee that they did this. They may have felt horrible remorse, but thought it was the best course of action. They were as sure of their righteousness, as firmly planted on their moral high-ground as we who feel loath to think as such.

        I am definately not defending these people. The blood in the earth cries for justice. But attempting to analyze motivations, free of war rhetoric, is the way to circumvent such problems in the future.

        Ah, my relativistic hell. I wish there were difference made between any one thing and another, and my soul found solace behind a white or black ideology.

        Love is the Law, Love under Will.


    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by jazzcat on Thursday September 13, @06:29PM
      ...no I am not celebrating my misguided boy,

      but you act as if this is just, a freak incedent!

      I am looking at the causes, and effects!

      so stuff like this will not happen again,

      your knee jerk response, is not anykind of stratagy, it just wants results!

      but what results!

      an eye for an eye a toot for a toot!

      come on that's for christians, or dum fucks that
      have nothing better to do, but hate people
      because thier skin is brown, or they have sex in a diffrent way, ect. or take substances that expand
      the mind...

      I rather thought Thelema was about, conscious evolution, beyond good and ...eeeefffiiilllll!

      I am not your scape goat!...sorry!,,,go find a
      punching bag..or a pillow,

      not come back and grow up, and be a real THELEMITE!


    Re: Severe the Ordeals
    by jazzcat on Thursday September 13, @06:13PM
    ok, here is a simple one and the other thang

    Bush:oil baron

    Ladon: oil baron

    save the free world? free? capitalism?

    Bush had a lot to gain from the gulf war

    think about all the horrable suffering
    that has been going on since that debacle
    women and children, yes take out the bad men
    that did this, but do not cause untold suffering
    to innocent people, we have seen quite enought of that, and then what!...A ROMAN POLICE STATE!
    ok all nazi's line up on this side...go right!


    this IS not a gooood vs. eiiifffl equasion

    (nothing comes out of a vacuum!!!)

    people act like death and destruction, is just something that happens to OTHER people in the world....

    Hubris is a bitch!...and so is gung ho ho's

    • Re: Severe the Ordeals
      by Martin Hettland on Friday September 14, @05:05AM
      Hi!

      I enjoy the riff of the jazzcat, but in the one above there is one factual mistake, Rome was not a police state, my teacher in history told me yesterday that there were no police force as such in Rome, so the public could-and did sometimes-beat up their leaders, this changed later on with the emperors that were decleared holy and inviolable by Emperor Augustus(this emperor also tried to strengthen the sanctity of marriage.)
      Emperor Augustus was titled as "The Saviour of Mankind", and was the emperor during the supposed time of birth for another "Saviour of Mankind": Jesus Christ.
      Augustus started the period of "Pax Romanum"(="The Roman Peace"), this expression is similar to "Pax Christi" used by the later Roman Catholic Church.

      No offence intended to you jazzcat,...keep the style man!

      Regards: Martin Hettland.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by Sum Y. Gai on Friday September 14, @10:46AM
        KUDOS to you for retaining the ability to constructively criticize.

        The Finger Ain't the Moon.


      • Re: Severe the Ordeals
        by jazzcat on Friday September 14, @05:20PM
        ...AND HELLo Martin...ya thanks, for that, but
        I mean in the sense that Rome never died, the Empire, all Empire, the American empire, see when
        this country started, we had some ideas, in freedom, but empire shadow looms....and so we find ourselves, still dealing with the cause and effect
        of the use of Christ, to Kontrol the masses, good and evil dualism, ect. I like reading about history also, I remember reading about the Gladiators in Gibsons, books; about how this monk
        (pagan monk) put an end to the bloody spectacles
        in the circus maximus, but not until he was stoned to death by an anger frustrated mob, but after that things changed....unsung hero?

        And I always got a kick of Nero fiddling while Rome burned....how aperpo!...are we seeing
        the beginning of the end of the Ameriacn empire?

        the empire never died, but then again neither did chaos!!!!


        • Re: Severe the Ordeals
          by jazzcat on Friday September 14, @06:25PM
          ...a correction, on the above, which really
          is the whole thang in a nut shell;

          duelism, is not the same as duelity

          duelism is yinyang

          duelity, is the perverse, seperation of the two
          into a competition mode

          rather then a wholistic mode!

          crucial this!!! Yes Yes I think Yes says YODACAT!!



     
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