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  The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
Social Justice Posted by Libanus on September 17, 2001 @ 08:33 PM
from the allah-mode dept.

In late February of 1998, Usamah Bin-Laden issued his "fatwa" or decree against the United States and American citizens. I just read this document for the first time yesterday and it was definitely an eye-opener for me. Judging from the tone of the document, I can't say that I am surprised about the attack. Was the U.S. government sleeping during these last few years? Did they not take Bin-Laden seriously? If they had and did something about it maybe this tragedy would not have happened.

Read the decree for yourself and see what you think:

Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders. The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since God made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone.

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it.

The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless. Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.

Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there.

The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al- Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam [not further identified] in his books, where he said "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."

On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims.

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill- treated (and oppressed) -- women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

Almighty God said "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."

Almighty God also says "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."

Almighty God also says "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."


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    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Mordecai on Tuesday September 18, @04:42PM
    >Was the U.S. government sleeping during these last few years?

    Don't assume that they have woken up yet. When our "leader" refers to this struggle, in which he claims to desire the help of Muslim nations, as a "crusade", he is using a word with not only unfortunate historical connotations but one which derives ultimately from Latin cruc-, crux, i.e., cross, the symbol of Christianity par excellence. I have yet to see any reference to the stupidity of this statement in our media, but be assured, it's all over the BBC and other international news outlets and Muslims heard it loud and clear.

    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
      by Cameron on Tuesday September 18, @09:45PM
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

      Why do you assume it was written in english? I suspect the word was jihad prior to being translated.

      Otherwise, I'm tempted to extend the notion of moral equivalence (the idea that this is just as morally reprehensible as American cruise missiles blowing the shit out of the A-rabs) to rhetorical equivilance: Flag/God, America/Islam, Liberty/Faith, New War/Holy War...


      Love is the law, love under will,
      Cameron


      • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
        by Cameron on Tuesday September 18, @09:55PM
        Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

        Why do you assume it was written in english? I suspect the word was jihad prior to being translated.

        Sorry, looks like I misread you. I guess crusade/jihad is another rhetorical equivalence.


        Love is the law, love under will,
        Cameron


    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Will on Tuesday September 18, @05:17PM
    "Did they not take Bin-Laden seriously?"

    Certainly they did. He has been blamed for the 1993 attack on the WTC as well as the attack on the USS Cole. Unfortunately, those events weren't enough to cause a nationwide tightening of security. That type of change is incredibly expensive, and it's hard to get everyone to cooperate until the situation escalates almost beyond control. Until last Tuesday, the vast majority of Americans either didn't know about bin Laden or didn't care, and a nation does not move without the people.

    Will

    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
      by anonymous93 on Tuesday September 18, @06:29PM
      "Did they not take Bin-Laden seriously?"

      The US government 'gave the Taliban in Afghanistan $43 million dollars' according to this article:

      http://www.michaelmoore.com/2001_0914.html

      Something to think about.

      -A93


      • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
        by Will on Wednesday September 19, @11:45PM
        The Taliban leader said opium is bad, but probably not because of the money it brought. Afghanistan brought in 100 billion dollars from the opium trade in 2000 alone (Just use the figures found in this other State Dept. report).


        For an update on what's going on with Afghanistan and drugs, see this article.


    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
      by Fra THA;M on Tuesday September 18, @08:36PM
      This is an interesting article being circulated by the 'Defense of Canadian Liberty Commitee". It is written by Stan Goff, an ex-american military man turned radical. It presents a more frightening scenario for people's liberties. It is long (I apologize Xnoubis), but I implore you to read it in it's entirity...

      "Since the savage attacks of September 11th, we have seen the unfolding of a national ritual denunciation of this crime that is much more than an expression of outrage and sadness. If the ritual is performed incompletely or incorrectly, one risks the charge of heresy. It's the new McCarthyism, and this is the new loyalty oath.
      A disciplined military-financial-industrial press is harmonizing us, and the orchestra director is our de facto executive branch.
      Heresies include:
      (1) the failure to call for war or support out "leaders" when they call for war,
      (2) the denial that this can be reduced to a test between good and evil,
      (3) the refusal to accept official explanations,
      (4) the temerity to suggest that our own rulers have committed equally offensive actions,
      (5) and finally, that our own financial, political, military, and intelligence establishments bear a portion of the blame.
      I retired from the Army in February, 1996, after some 24 years of service.
      "Special operations" was my field.
      That gives me a perspective on this military-macho posturing that seems to have seized the whole country. The military, industrial, and political establishment are cashing in on this tragedy, and it shouldn't serve as an excuse to be stupid. This can not be allowed to provoke a retreat by progressives. The admirable and poignant solidarity of New Yorkers, and many
      across the nation, is being contaminated by a military fetish, a mindless phallic nationalism, and instead of seeking solutions, we are seeking enemies. And we'll find them. History sent us a warning, but we're not listening. Herr Hitler announced with a familiar combination of
      grief-stricken solemnity and manly outrage, on February 27, 1933, "Gentlemen, the Reichstag is on fire." We ought to pay attention to this.
      We've got to interrupt this war talk, and we've got to do it aggressively and on a mass scale, because MUCH is at stake. And we've got to interrupt it with more than an appeal against
      xenophobia and the abrogation of civil liberties.
      We are responsible to shift attention from the motives of "Usama bin Laden and his legions of demonic followers" to the motives of the Bush Administration and the capitalist governments of Europe. I've come to assume, from my own experience, that anything I hear from the State Department or the FBI is apt to be... less than
      truthful. Officialdom doesn't make statements to represent reality. It constructs stories to pursue interests. Whether those stories conform to reality is incidental. This attack will benefit the militarists in this country far more
      than it will benefit anyone else, and I remember the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Progressives in the US have reason to be afraid. This unforgivable act of inhumanity will be used as an excuse to crack down on dissent here, to engage in military aggression against other peoples, and to whip up an already more-than-latent
      anti-Muslim xenophobia. But the key thing to understand here is that this is pulling a
      lot of political and economic cookies out of the fire, or so dangerous buffoons like Bush believe, and is leading us to disaster. There is quite simply no security system in the world that can
      not be bypassed, and there is no way to protect absolutely against these kinds of attacks.
      When we accept this premise, we have to conclude that overwhelming violence in retaliation for these kinds of acts will not bring such acts to an end, but escalate the levels of overall
      violence. An Israeli-like response will bring with it an Israeli-like situation, on a global level. In a very short step, we can tumble from chauvinism into the abyss of repression and
      tribalism. U. S. military might and the willingness to use it is not only not the solution, it's a powerful contributing factor to
      terrorism, when it is combined with the arrogance and impunity of our foreign policies. We have the capability to overwhelm any conventional military
      force in the world, so no one in the world has the option to oppose those forces in a conventional way. When those forces or allied forces are the ultimate guarantors of
      intolerable situations, or when the sovereignty of nations is swept aside, unconventional means will inevitably be employed. If I would rather die fighting than go on living as I am, and I
      can't build a Tomahawk Cruise missile, then I can learn to fly a Boeing 767. Progressives can't withdraw from the scene. I urge people to revisit the post by Mark Jones on the world energy system.

      QUOTE "The extremely finite nature of petroleum reserves was always the Achilles heel of industrial capitalism, and even now it is the great blind spot, the great point of denial at the heart of the priesthood's theology of growth and accumulation. "World oil is already in sharp and irreversible decline. We remain more than ever dependent on Saudi and Iraqi oil reserves.
      Everything else is being or has already been, used up. Yet it is precisely here in this volatile geopolitical tinderbox that America and its allies are now planning to wage new, intensified war. It is hard to imagine a
      more suicidal course of action. As often before in history, the hubris of ruling classes conceals some real stupidity. "War in the Middle East and South Asia and Afghanistan is ultimately going to be a war for control over oil. WHAT SEEMS TO
      BE IN PROSPECT IS A MILITARY OCCUPATION OF THE OIL FIELDS BY THE MAJOR CAPITALIST STATES [Stan's caps], against the will of the masses there and in the teeth of furious resistance. This does
      not look like a promising way to guarantee long-term and vital energy supplies. Without Persian Gulf oil, world capitalism will be snuffed out quicker than the Mayan empire was. Waging war
      against the local population seems to be
      the one surefire way to lose Arab oil forever." CLOSE QUOTE
      That's why action, even action with risks, is so critical. Mark further pointed out that events are out of the control of the global bosses, who are now blundering from one reaction to
      the next in a system that was already incredibly unstable. We were already, before this catalytic event, somnambulating into the hell-hole of this global ecological, economic, and political
      crisis. I think it's absolutely certain, with the course we're now on, that there WILL be massive dislocation, suffering, and degradation-and we shall not be spared this time. This attack on September 11th did not happen in a social or
      historical vacuum. If the conceit of our rulers is contributing directly to the bewilderment of the people, this implies to me that for clarity
      among the masses, the solution is not support for this priesthood of the market, and not acquiescence to this de facto political
      leadership, but on the contrary, its replacement.
      The struggle is not for justice, but for survival. These loons are talking about WWIII, because in their undying hubris they really believe they can win it, because they think it
      will bolster the economy, and because they see what looks like an opportunity. If we are to fight for sanity and survival, it's our duty now to be stubborn and have the courage of our convictions. Something to seriously consider. The local newspaper today in an editorial stated that Americans were being niave if they think
      this is going to be a short "war." They stated in sociopathic rants that this may well go on past our lifetimes. In addition to their civil liberties must go editorial yesterday, what sort of a political order are they advocating here, it seems pretty clear to me--it has the ugly whiff of fascism. It is time to roll and oppose this.
      Now is not the time to go silent and wait this out. It's not going to blow over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      >From a purely tactical standpoint, NOW is the best opportunity we will have to fight back, NOT after this madness has had more time to develop.
      And given the climate that will develop if this madness progresses, there will be risks. There will be witch-hunts. Ironically, we are now in the same position, I think, as the pilots of those planes that were hijacked, forced to choose
      between bad and worse. Denial of this dilemma only contributes to the problem. Right now is the time for progressives to show up and grow up.
      Audre Lorde summed up our situation about as nicely as anyone I can imagine, so I'll close with her statement: "Your silence will not protect you."


    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by jazzcat on Tuesday September 18, @08:44PM
    ...well well well, we have got a "CRUSADE" prez
    Booosh!!!...notice how mental deficient he is, why
    is it the American public don't pay attention, to
    the totaly mangled things he says...could it be?
    "CURSADE"
    you know when white men in armor went on a grand
    mission to SAVE the holy land, in the days of old when knights were bold and toilets weren't invented, when on the thier way to the ""CRUSADE"
    they slaughtered people just cuz they could!!!

    If patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels
    then what is invoking, "CRUSADE"???

    the shit storm has arrived and the first fatality
    is sanity, time for us secularists to get out our
    light sabers, this is going to be a fast ride...

    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
      by Azag on Wednesday September 19, @12:49AM
      yet "us secularists" continue driving their subarus and volvo wagons witha beep-beep on the way to starbucks, at the cost of forgin lives. who are we kiding.

      we like to moan and cry when presented with horror,loss, images and strained voices but what are "us secularists" realy willing to do, past the most casual witholing of gratification? Most object vocally - and then continue purchasing oil from those self-same "white men (who) in armor went on a grand mission to SAVE the holy land", in context, if youre refering to the government.

      the holy land exists inside our combustion engines, factory machines, public transports, tractors, trailers..and like necessities of common "American" excess. the "crusade" is being funded by Jamba Juice and Blockbuster video. what if america dominates, none kills us w/biochems, and oil/gas prices drop? the secularists are dancin in the streets w/everyone else. as if the coming deaths perpitrated under the guise of national or religious zelotry are somehow new, or unprecidented. like we havent been kicking the shit out of oil producing forgin bodies as far as i can imagine.

      Im not suggesting that we buy the lies, but really, i think its entirly possible that the American mass (yes,including secularists) secretly want to maintain their comfort levels. even at the cost of innocent lives.

      theres a need to immediatly counter polarize in an attempt to reject guilt, and who better to fight against & project onto than good ol uncle sam you can do it from you easy chair...with a nice glass of green tea. cnn becomes an oracle...its just scary. masters of reality.

      i cant say im ever opposed to someone else empowering their own vision of Will. Seems to be the law of perfected evolution to some degree and those that are destined to participate, act. those that are destined to philosophise talk. Nuit, potential, has always precluded the "mode" of Hadit in my mind, action, but to revel in the possible evils of action (the government, war, etc.) - seems to me to be an attempt to remain in the space of "potential" without ever accepting ones own vital role in the actions/crimes of the machine, you are america.

      forgive my ranting.
      93


      • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
        by jazzcat on Wednesday September 19, @01:53AM
        ...and what a rant it was, is, was is, well
        even so, sounds intelligent, confussed, vexed,
        betrayed all in one burst of idiosyncratic
        phallic, spurt!!

        and cum is white!!!

        but what does that have to do with philosophical
        anything...?

        Nuit= potential, therefore anuthing is possible at any and all zero points of Hadit...

        shall I justify the open sewer of sanctified lies?
        shall I be who I am, and refuse to say the pledge of allegiance, because I don't like that being
        cramed down my throat?...why was it that at the age of six, my first grade teacher was teaching rasism, and I was the only kid that got in trouble for being non-comformist, hell I didn't even know
        what she was taking about,but it stuck in my mind,
        seems to me that I have been a little rebel since then, got kicked out of a movie theater at ten for not standing up and say in the pledge...

        So when the Vietman war came along when I was a teen, and then had to register for the draft,
        I was no tostesterone mood and I sure was in no mood or set of mind to
        being told how to tie my shoe laces mood, sure as hell was in no mood to shoot innocent people in Vietnam, but I had friends that did, and not one of them came back thinking that what they had to do was something to be proud of, and I sure as hell think that carpit bombing any nation, is
        not the manly thing to do...but I understand that
        a lot of young men were either told it was the manly thing to do, or they had no choice, and prison or Canada was not an option for them...
        see for me it WAS where my conscience was at,
        and after being busted for three counts of draft evasion, and going to court several times, I managed finally, to eek past cuz I was then considered a paranoid schizo, and fell through the cracks of society, so in a way that war had a
        devistating effect on my life, or at least it was a very large factor in the direction my life took,
        its easy to blame others, if they don't fit into
        your neat definition...but thelema is supposed
        to be about options, I did my own will, my will was NOT to be a combatant!...and that is a small picture of one persons experiance..insignificant
        as it is...

        rant away!!! we are Thelemites, or whatever that
        is these days...


        • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
          by Azag on Wednesday September 19, @09:26AM
          "shall I justify the open sewer of sanctified lies?"

          - never. being Thelemic demands that you activate your own personal version of Will,in action or inaction as it were, to bring about the purest possible catylization in time...agreed. always.

          I was speaking more towards the fact that we all know its plainly our consumerism(s) that drive the war machine,we spend paper and others pay with blood. I cant blame my government for bombing some poor sandy brother - my buying dollars are sending a message loud and clear to the iternational community. we will have our cars, planes, buses and tractors at any cost, other than our comfort levels. we like our factories. our robotosism runs deep deep deeeeep.

          My light remains untouched,detracted, while the flesh reels and heads for its next caffine high.....

          Slayer has a new album, CD, whatever...its called "God Hates Us All". Aprapos theme music for current vexations. at a Killmart near you. consumer killer at large, and still free to BUY.
          Ahhh America! The terrible beauty of conciousness.

          Yes, we are Thelemites, whatever that possibly could mean. Mars knocks hard on my door. I turn out the lights and hide. shhhhhhhhhhh...we can still sneak out the backdoor make it to starfucks......and the slime oozes on.


          • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
            by an0nym0use93 on Wednesday September 19, @09:15PM
            93 Folks!

            Let me introduce mySELF. I am the type of crEATure similar to a mole.. i like to dig.. I like to fINd the roots of things and fINd SOLutiONs.

            It was previously SAiD,

            "I was speaking more towards the fact that we all know its plainly our consumerism(s) that drive the war machine,we spend paper and others pay with blood."

            You are awARE of this fact and you are ok with this?

            There was ONce an old man who told me, "m0use .. all it tAKES for wroNG to exISt is for GoOD people to ignORe it."

            He was a nice old FARt.. SLIghtly smARTer than a bag of rocks wHEn It cAMe to math and things like you scHOlars excEL at but he HAD seNse when it cAMe to certAIN things I found.

            Now, usually as soON as a term like "rIght" or "wrONg" is SAiD around a group of THElemITes, people have the tENDency to go on a rant about how "right" and "wrong" don't exISt for us tHELemITe people and that is fine if you decide to tAKE tHAt rOUTe.. but tHEre cOMes to a point when it becomes inane, and this little mouse asks you to not go there for ONce.

            I would like to thInk it is NOt a sensible long term pLAn for us to wREck the earth by hARvESTing mORe of ITs naturAL reSOURCEs tHAn we need and killing other people to mAKE us mORe comFORTable. Why the need to be so comFORTable?

            PerHAps it is tHAt as we wORk at jobs we hate and lIve lIVEs wHEre we have no tIMe to be the people we want to be, thInk the thIngs we want to thInk.. we feel compelled to mAKE more bITs of paper that buy us more instant (infant?) gratificatiON and cOMfort?

            Are we NOt WHORES?

            ANyhow... the way I see it is that there must be a way to simpLIFy things a bIT mORe.. live more in balance with the reSOURCEs we have..

            "I cant blame my government for bombing some poor sandy brother - my buying dollars are sending a message loud and clear to the iternational community. we will have our cars, planes, buses and tractors at any cost, other than our comfort levels. we like our factories. our robotosism runs deep deep deeeeep"

            So there you go. We dON't need to blame the government, unless of course we feel the need to reLEIVE the guilt.. we all maybe should lEARN to tAKE responSIBILity and mouse does thInk this gREeD and CONSUMErism stuff is behind this *war* and mANY other strUGgles in huMANity.

            Age of HorUS? ChILd? We are crYING maybe? Need SOOTHers?

            Need someONE else to tAKE responSIBILity for us CHILDren?

            Is there nOT anOther way? AnOTher mOde of living?

            Do we as people who are awARE cONdONe this PACIFication?

            Does it cOMe to thIS?

            Killing innoCENTS to sustAIN our yupPIe comFORt level?

            I would like to thInk not.

            There must be some SOLutIONs.

            Us thelemITes cannot figure it out?

            SugGESTions anyONE?

            93 93/93


            -an0nymouse93


            • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
              by Azag on Monday September 24, @07:32PM
              "You are awARE of this fact and you are ok with this?"

              Could you please clairify your perspective? I was speaking of personal consummerism, and the necessity to "purchase" thereby funding the oil plundering War machine. Are you asking from the standpoint of:


              1) Being Aware and not being ok (with being a consumer)

              2) Being Aware and being ok

              4) Not being Aware and being ok

              5) Not being Aware and not being ok


              "Killing innoCENTS to sustAIN our yupPIe comFORt level?"

              Not just Yuppie comfort levels. Or are "yuppie's" the only fantasy social group that will continue to depend on oil burning machinery? Have you driven a car, flown in a plane, used public transit, eaten frozen foods or otherwise depended combustion technology to sustaine your "comfort level" since the terrorist actions?

              93's never hurt like these,
              peace.


              • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                by jazzcat on Monday September 24, @08:13PM
                ...are we all on the same side?

                ...are we speaking the same language?

                ...is your 93, the same as my 93?

                ...how many different ways, and means
                can we go at this monster with our
                small sticks, and tiny stones..?

                ...is there a way to turn the oil dependent
                nations around?

                tune in next aeon!!..for the exciting end of
                the world as we know it!!!


                • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                  by Azag on Tuesday September 25, @12:13AM
                  "...how many different ways, and means
                  can we go at this monster with our
                  small sticks, and tiny stones..?"

                  - all i see is meeeeeeeeeeee. im no politician so i wont speak of politics. im no soldier so wont speak of killing or death. i just feel like im a conscious participant in luxuries that are harming others, but somehow i feel i must also have the right to utilize all the resourses in my direct environment without the added guilt of exterior judgement. Like any being, or combination of energies manifest into one unit, America has gotten up from its easy chair and taken a step towards the fire, for us all. Nothing to be done but individual Will at this point. Its nice when we can all agree. Its just that none asked if it was ok for my tax dollars to be spent in this particular fashion. Im glad those bills dont have my picture on them. Now we can finally go out and buy gas masks ...and the band plays on.

                  But then I still like a $20.00 steak at Hungry Hunter, a fast drive through a twisty mountain road early in the morn...
                  and im not alone.

                  believe it to beaver,
                  93


                  • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                    by jazzcat on Tuesday September 25, @01:45AM
                    [In the Shells]



                    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                      by Azag on Tuesday September 25, @02:00PM
                      I appreciate you trying to be dreadfully honest, helps make my ego-reflective reactions a bit more entertaining.

                      “you are just making excuses for what you refuse to face, which is the truth about why all this shit is hitting the fan, you can't have your cake and eat it to, but you can find psychic integrety!”

                      Can you say this and continue to eat frozen foods, drive a car, receive delivered mail or go shopping for shoes? Or have you quit the civilized world altogether? Objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear. Im not being apathetic or unconscious, I’m taking ego responsibility for my consumerism and moving forward in the both worlds, without the need to “judge” on anyone, except myself. I wont be sorry for my existence and when I get the chance I help. Where are the excuses?

                      ”that is what thelema is about! and if it ain't
                      about that then, it ain't about nothing!”

                      Here we go with the conclusive definitions of Thelema again. You should know better …

                      ”get my drift?..if it isn't about the truth
                      and it isn't about justice then it isn't about nothing!”

                      jazz what have you done (action) to maintain your world vision of “truth” in light of the present conversation? What remarkable feats of liberation have you committed in favor of “justice”. Just wondering if youre just waxing jazzy, or speaking from a seat of realized application. Sorry if my text dosent always read like a comic book, as Im not altogether virtuous and the good guy doent always have a direct battles to win in the fleshy world. There's not always someone to directly blame.

                      Sometimes all were left with is reality, and sometimes a poem isn’t as positive as we’d like. That’s the "terrible" in "terrible beauty".

                      Actions are permitted jazz,...and you're part of the permission if you consume...like it or not. there's a conclusion for ya.


                      • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                        by jazzcat on Tuesday September 25, @04:16PM
                        ...I haven't the slightest idea what you are talking abou...t

                        ...and for that matter I haven't the slightest
                        idea, why my last post was put into the deaded shells!!!!unless , well; why speculate!

                        consume seems to be a very important word for you!

                        whatever, go kiss the feet of King George!

                        I could care less what you consume!(nice toe jams)
                        yummy!

                        By by baby!


                        • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                          by Azag on Tuesday September 25, @05:38PM
                          "no you are not alone there are a lot of crushed little people that believe in black and white reality as cramed down thier throats, by rightwing
                          christian types"

                          I would agree that this statement is shellable. It's an open attack. That is unless "crushed little people that believe in black and white reality" has good connotations that Im not aware of.

                          "consume seems to be a very important word for you!"

                          "whatever, go kiss the feet of King George!"

                          "I could care less what you consume!(nice toe jams)yummy!"

                          Its seems as though you are semi-unconscious about your own situation and dependancies, the inter-connection of recent events tied to our economy and ultimatly to your own standard of living, the "consumption & utilization" of petrolium based goods and services thereof.

                          If you think that Im a consumer, and you're not...then the true reasons behind the Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden,and our countries "new" war effort, i think, may remain a mystery to you personally. Sorry if the realism is bringing you down. Each one of us will have to come to terms with our own responsibility in the face of the "new" war. Thats the joke, as its not new at all. Its been raging, even as weve been spending. All these years.

                          And this will continue ... and we will live, while others die. Thats the truth. Go out and buy a new pair of Berkinstock's, have a green tea at Starbucks and practice the poetry..., helps the economy. Nothing has changed.

                          93


                          • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                            by Mordecai on Tuesday September 25, @06:24PM
                            >Go out and buy a new pair of Berkinstock's, have a
                            >green tea at Starbucks and practice the poetry...,
                            >helps the economy.

                            I understand the first two, but could you explain how the practice of poetry is helping the economy? If you can make a persuasive argument for that it would really help us poets get some corporate grant money!


                            • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                              by Azag on Tuesday September 25, @07:04PM
                              This is hypothetical:

                              --9:00 am Monday Morn
                              Man practices shoddy poetry aloud inside Starbucks.

                              --9:04 am Monday Morn
                              Customers leave embarrassed and confused pledging to invest their last dollars in educational bonds in hopes of subverting like fates for thier children, thereby creating future grants.


                              • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                                by Mordecai on Tuesday September 25, @09:45PM
                                Nice synchro! I just opened an educational CD account for my daughter today.


              • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                by anonym0use93 on Thursday September 27, @07:53PM
                93 All.

                IT was said:

                '"I was speaking more towards the fact that we all know its plainly our consumerism(s) that drive the war machine,we spend paper and others pay with blood."'

                "You are awARE of this fact and you are ok with this?"

                'Could you please clairify your perspective? I was speaking of personal consummerism, and the necessity to "purchase" thereby funding the oil plundering War machine.

                Yes I was reffering to that.

                You mention it SO matter of factly..
                hmnn

                '1) Being Aware and not being ok (with being a consumer)'

                yes.. being aware of being a CONSUMER who is out of whack, ie. consuming more than is neccesary for his survival and knowing the results that this imbalance incurs.

                Anyhow, the point for me to write at all was not to make judgment or cast glares at people but merely to see if anyone had a suggestion or suggestions that would minimize this issue that might possibly be able to apply to the masses.


                It was said:

                'Have you driven a car, flown in a plane, used public transit, eaten frozen foods or otherwise depended combustion technology to sustaine your "comfort level" since the terrorist actions?'

                I have. I will not in one month. I have other plans. However this was not the topic of conversation.

                What I was asking, (I guess it was not clear) was IS THERE NOT A BETTER way for us as humans to limit our consuming level so these issues do not occur as much?

                There must be some SOLutIONs.

                Anonym0use~~~~~.
                93 93/93


                • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                  by Fra THA;M on Friday September 28, @03:37PM
                  Perhaps, Soror, the only answer to the problems you raise is a radical restructuring of the existant system. In our society We judge individuals according what material they accumulate, rather than the strengths of their character. We never realize that the agendas behind those puerile entertainments we covet (TV, Magazines etc) are to make us THINK that we need all of this useless crap that's produced. We can never realize that our country produces such an extensive social surplus that every individual could be fed, clothed and sheltered, and still have resources enough for the greedy to chase profit. Ah my impotent ranting and raving. We need to raise the standard of liberty and autonomy, rally behind it, and demand the right to self-determine. As it stands, the government and their corporate slave-masters do the thinking for us.

                  "I have. I will not in one month. I have other plans..."
                  Such as what?


                  • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                    by Mordecai on Friday September 28, @04:19PM
                    As you point out, a lack of abundance is not the problem. No less a heartless reactionary than Milton Friedman has endorsed the idea of a guaranteed income. It wouldn't be opulent, just enough for someone to live on. Those who want any extras (most of us, I surmise) would still have to work, but the lazy or demented would no longer have any excuse to live on the street; in fact they would become a valuable market for some businesses to target. Listen up, you Libertarians! You can be compassionate and economically sound at the same time!


                    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
                      by Fra THA;M on Saturday September 29, @02:44PM
                      Almost exactly my veiwe, Mordecai. Not only do I think that no one should suffer a lack of life's necessities (regardless of whether they are unmotivated, mentally ill, or handicapped), but they should be given a comfortable (not luxurious) quality of life. Is it such a leap of reason to suppose that people could go without a third car, surround sound big screen TV, GAP clothes, as a selfless sacrafice for their brothers and sisters? Unfortuneatly, probably. But if ALL individuals who have to eak and scratch through life for the aggrandisement of the wealthy elite were given the dignity of easier life; if they had the time and resources to devote to discovering their Wills, the world would be a nobler place.


        • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
          by Peter on Wednesday September 19, @11:17PM
          --What is truth?

          I searched and searched when I was 11 years, sifted through the crap - how I knew what was, and what wasn't I don't know...well, actually lies are pretty unaesthetic aren't they.

          Found THELEMA, been studying ever since.
          I need your posts mr Jazz man.

          I admire much about awesome Muslim culture - nutshell I have met genuine and unambiguous people, unlike scary judo-christos.
          And the small sample I have known have touched my life with real aid, in a small way in my own insignificant journeys.

          Trouble is this question of divine authority, from earthly hierachy or external AL? hmm. Practical Majica at the moment more like.

          Almost heard the jets whistling over head just now - BBC news.

          Time is of the essence, then.

          Someone tell me what is Israel, and what is America.

          Is was Israel a holy land? - Most holy kabalah origin here, and repugnant oppression?

          Is America the land of the free? Incredible self expression through vulgar arts. Billionaires multiplying, Dilbert cells, as we are humorously informed.

          Is oil wealth a case of: as above so below?
          Genuine religous belief and honesty still prevail in the Middle east. Innocents by the million. Activists by the 0.00001 % and possibly only activated by artificial dollar injection.

          Show down. Tragi-comic heros in war $billion planes. Good. Burn some cash.
          Just don't convert innocents to turd in a hurry.
          Remember the science the muslims taught us - beginning with Al-chemistry and Al-gebra.
          Nothing is created or destroyed!

          --Will set us free.


          • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
            by jazzcat on Thursday September 20, @04:14AM
            ...ya ; that is the key " actually lies are unaesthetic"

            ya and I guess I liked beauitful things, beauitful
            like a sunset in the desert...

            those lies where craping up my childhood dreams,

            that school teachers face with her stories of God cooking people in ovens, and the white ones coming out just right, and the others were burnt...

            that did not appeal to my aesthetic sense of justice and truth!

            even if they were already tring to brainwash me,
            i guess I was a perfectionist, once my sense of perfection was messed with, I was truly born...
            then, when I started to see, and know...

            the real lessons began...a game of how NOT to be brainwashed, conditioned, controled, chained
            to crap creeds...I wasn't looking for a club to join, a place to be part of the gang, I was looking for peace of mind!!!...

            free your mind and the universe will follow!!!


      • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
        by Colin S McLeod on Wednesday September 19, @07:42AM
        I particularly enjoyed the rendition, by the cream of the U.S. establishment, of The Battle Hymn of the Republic at the National Cathedral service.

        "I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
        As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
        Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
        Since God is marching on."

        That doesn't seem to have had as much attention as the crusade clunker but it was obviously deliberate.

        CSM


    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Jana Rutkowski on Wednesday September 19, @09:40AM
    Perhaps the Fatwa of Bin-Laden seemed less threatening because the US has its own, home-grown, underground terrorists. Like Eric Rudolph and his support network. Like the "identity" fanatics who aided Tim McVeigh. And, of course, there are many others. In my view, the statement of a fatwa is disturbing mainly to those who don't frame statements of political (and religious?) conflict in those terms.

    Consider Falwell and Robertson placing the blame for Sept. 11 on Americans who don't share their views and lifestyle. Then pretending to retract. Then repeating their filth, slightly restated.

    The unsurprising news from SmallTown USA is that a subtle distinction is being made among the victims of last week's horrible events: the victims at the Pentagon were VETS; the victims at the WTC were urbanites, globalists -- and some were even foreigners! The attack on America happened in Virginia.

    Before last week's horror, my friends and I were speculating about what was simmering below the surface in American fundy-fanatic circles since, obviously, a certain guest they all expected at the two last New Year celebrations didn't show.

    The unity of Americans in their reaction to bin Laden's fatwa fanatics is a media myth. Sad to say, there are those who first heard of the fatwa with a knowing glee. They are heading now in droves off to their churches, not to memorialize the victims but to anticipate gettin' raptured.

    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Alone in the desert. on Thursday September 20, @11:51AM
    Do not some of us as Neo-Templars lay claim to a kinship with our fellow Ismaeli soldier brothers? Knight Monks inspired by their fellow God loving warrior saints were enriched by the esoteric mysteries of Islam. We all, in our own way, faught against the tyranny of the lords of our lands.

    Were we not shocked out of our naivity when the mysteries were laid open to us underneath the stars in the desert? Were some of us, inspired and made curious by strange lands and new cultures, awakened to the ideological canopy we had faught underneath, realizing we bore a standard not for God, but for the corrupt leaders and deceitful liers in the lands from which we came? Did some of us not decide to bring the light back into the darkness of our native lands to liberate our people's from the lies parading as truth and faith? Were some of us not broken underneath the wheels of the system, and burned by the unrighteous fires of those who rule the world?

    As then, so it stands today. The truth is veiled behind a pall of darkness. Lies abound, and reality is hidden from the eyes of the profane. Yet the world is run by those self same lies. Who are the "leaders" who are the "righteous" who are the "good" and the "evil"?

    But the Gnosis was hidden, buried in the midst of the sickness of the age. Illuminated sparks carrying the current of life and liberty through the ages.

    Now as then the outer seeks to stifle the inner light of truth. The "War" on the outer planes is a mirror of an inner battle taking place.

    Things are not as they seem. Things are skewwise and bent. Lies abound. Revolutionize yourself!!! The Jihad is an inner struggle with the limits of consciouness.

    The media/military/industrial/prison state is a global phenomenon seeking consolidation in the arms of the totalized world hegemony. It is totalization of media - ocrity.

    How do you fight such any "enemy?" Buried deep within all of our minds are parasites, linguistic viruses, memes, insidious plagues.

    Destroy all ists and isms. All constructs of false identity, all that veils the Radiant clear light of truth.

    We will experience a collective death.
    There is no resisting. Rebirth is the cycle: IAO.
    INRI. Redemption, ressurection, return, and renewal.

    Let go and surrender into the arms of NUIT.

    He who dies often is ever a king among men....

    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by jazzcat on Friday September 21, @05:08AM
    A poem written a couple weeks ago...

    The Veil Is Rent

    The sun bursts through
    that which previously
    had been a weave of dark
    threads before the light

    the body is a word wound
    torn from its bloody hole
    the womb of the tomb stands ajar

    I had entered this life in a star
    I had seen the threads being placed
    one over the other, the folds were
    vast as the song of death that weaves
    its spell like the voice that crawls
    from its place in the thicket, in the
    dense places where the jewels are buried

    my reason was only to wonder the spaces
    to gather openess from the skys that
    spread thier deep sight into my eyes
    I only wished to seek a fire in the voids
    of nights spread under points that sparkle
    in oceans of distance, I follow the fabric
    hanging from the tears in the days longing
    to rest with the universe at my feet

    there have been great shadows of silence
    to become the bringer of all endlessness
    there have been curses lost in the winds so
    fierce that even the living blood that
    contains all cannot remember it all
    the pain that becomes a golden blade
    I have been such a blade even onto stone
    the bread that has been broken like mountains
    the fury of my ravages swinging claw wings

    my centuries handing the utterance through
    the hole in the wall of lies, my energy
    of such images that have been craved in sand
    in all the morsels of the soul riped by storm
    from within and without, I have endured such
    idols that my knowledge of thier origins
    has been cast into great pits of letters

    That I languish here in solemn solitude
    so complete that memories of future inventions
    cannot soothsay my utter horror at thier vent
    the darkness beyond darkness veil is rent
    I am given to flesh, feather, and feast of flight
    the blood that ran down my prone form is bright
    the word that held my impossible door of lights
    has sprouted leaves of inordinate realms of IT
    sleep which was never my name has dreamed me
    I who vomit my sad chore have now taken
    the carved signs from the cavern of my heart
    letters in shapes of fire, aleph, beth, cheth
    yod glyphs rain like curved drops of flame
    as the glowing pieces fell like angels in dark
    spewing into the sky to burn there awhile

    Now the wedding of heaven and hell is written
    these words will forever be with love smitten
    from above and so below, so shall it be begun

    the solar hawk has flown out of the luner sun
    into the everlasting house of IT's death rebirth

    *********************(666)**********************

    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
      by Alone In The Desert on Friday September 21, @02:55PM
      Thou Art That And That Am I...


    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Zarathustra on Saturday September 22, @02:32AM
    Y'all have had interesting things to say, and I am frankly touched by my brethren's skeptical attitudes toward this new Holy War we're being asked to endorse.

    I have been cruising the net for various opinions. The consistent thread that comes from intelligent humnitarian observers is that we have the wrong metaphor for the 9/11 attacks. We should be operating under a CRIMINAL paradigm, rather than a war paradigm. We should treat the perpetrators of the attacks as international criminals to be prosecuted, rather than warlike states to be attacked militarily.

    This approach would involve international institutions such as the World Court and/or the international war crimes tribunal. This would allow the whole world to confirm that justice is being done, as it is with Slobodan Milosovich.

    The US leadership, however, doesn't like this option because: a) it prefers a unilateralist ("America matters, others don't") course rather than an internationalist one - this gives the US as much power as it wants; b) criminal procedure requires more patience than a military strike; and c) many industries in the US (with powerful political allies) make a lot of money from a military buildup, and lobby the govt to pursue right-wing, warlike policies (-- and heavily fund Repub candidates like Bush).

    I am personally disgusted by Bush's rejection of the Taliban's request for evidence of bin Laden's guilt in the 9/11 attacks. This indicates a disregard for the most basic notions of due process. If we are so sure he did it, why isn't it a simple matter to give the Taliban the evidence?

    (note: even most of the progressives I read operate under the assumption that bin Laden did mastermind the attack - though I have some doubts, since he doesn't seem like the type to deny such a successful strike).

    Many commentators point out that we are headed for a trap. If we invade dirt poor, war-weary Afghanistan, we will galvanize a whole new generation of impoverished Muslims to a new jihad angainst the US. Nothing could be better PR for bin Laden than a US invasion of a Muslim country. He will gain umpteen thousands of new converts - each ready and willing for a suicide bombing.

    [note: my sources include Robert Fisk, Noam Chomsky, and others - I recommend Znet.com's commentary, as well as the collected editorials at commondreams.org]

    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Micha deBarca on Monday September 24, @07:10AM
    Back to the fateful Fatwa:

    Looks like the US will respond as is natural.
    After all the US culture has an inbred belief in the use of force in conflict.
    Pilgrim fathers, bible in one hand & a gun in the other. The eye for an eye resolve, hence the death penalty.

    I guess the new ranchers have to drive away the natives in startling new ways. Oh shit, they're fighting back even ruffer! All shoqued wide awake.

    On another note: Hotdang! If this not be The Blasted Tower, then what is?

    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
      by jazzcat on Monday September 24, @04:43PM
      another note: Bin has the bomb?

      is this another Kyber pass?

      oh! and the pearl Harbor thang, was it staged!
      remember the Alamo jojo!..hey wasn't that
      Pearl Harbor movie...THAT CAME OUT A COUPLE
      OF MONTS AGO CORNBALL?..ya but effective
      know what I mean?

      the blasted tower, a clever rook play: LOOK!
      up in the sky its a bird, its a word, its
      super bird turd!..KABOOM!!! 11.11.

      Hitler had his Reichstag!...right?


    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Faykh Baytaa on Monday October 01, @07:17PM
    I hope that none of you believe that the assassins of September 11 were/are Muslims, or were acting on Islamic principles. Those principles are totally against the murder of innocents. The Taliban are not Muslims. When they captured Kabul they entered the sanctuary of the UN compound, and took ex-President Najibullah, tortured him to death and mutilated his body. Such mutilation of an enemy's dead body was common among the Arabs in the time of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and he quite explicitly denounced and forbade it. Please don't confuse Taliban and terrorists with real Islam.

    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
      by Libanus on Monday October 01, @10:57PM
      I can assure you that most if not all of the people who post to this board know the difference between the principles of the Taliban and the principles of Islam. I can't speak for all Thelemites, but in the OTO we revere Mohammed as a Saint and there are a number of members who have incorporated Muslim and Sufi elements into their spirituality. Those of us who have read the Qur'an and know what the Prophet said understand that the Taliban is using the name of Islam to excuse the inexcusable.


    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Baphomet Rex 666 on Tuesday October 02, @09:53PM
    93,
    All is as it was meant to be.
    Like it or not.
    93/93/93
    ISN
    666

    Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
    by Invictus on Friday February 01, @09:33PM
    The only people who started this war where the muslim filth who are radically opposed to the very Liberty at the heart of BOTH America and Thelema. The "thelemites", left wingers, hippies, anti-capitilists, anarchists and other such gutless and cowardly traitors should be shown to the nearest airport and told not to come back. As far as muslims who choose to blame and hate America and the West for thier own self imposed cultural decline, I say, if they are so keen to get to Allah, then we should help them along as quickly as possible.

    VICTORY !

    • Re: The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
      by Xnoubis on Saturday February 02, @10:19AM
      You win my award for the grossest posting ever submitted here, and that's saying something.



     
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