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  Why a War God?
General Thelema Posted by Xnoubis on June 25, 2001 @ 12:09 AM
from the peregrine-and-bear-it dept.

In a recent Beast Bay thread, Shasu Ma'akheru pointed out that it is odd that some Thelemites find the efficacy of war distasteful, since "Liber Legis is in part devoted to an Egyptian war god". Perhaps this is an issued that isn't examined often enough.

What does it mean that Horus is a god of war? Is war in the sense of Horus different from war as it is ordinarily understood? What is the relationship between the Aeon of Horus the war-god and the generally shared wish for peace?



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    Re: Why a War God?
    by Shasu Ma'akheru on Monday June 25, @12:38AM
    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

    Since it's my recent remark that's being trotted out here, I think I should clarify what I think about Horus as a war god.

    Geburah is traditionally ascribed to the planetary influence of Mars and, therefore, war. Understood in a general sense, war is a violent clash between two opposed forces that leads to a final synthesis that partakes of the nature of both its parents. Diagonally across from Geburah on the Tree of Life is Netzach, the sphere of Venus and love, which is also a merger of opposites producing a synthesis, but in a less violent and confrontational way. (Of course, Netzach is also the Isis of nature, the same nature that is described as "red in tooth and claw".)

    Mars is a purging, fiery, purifying force that violently attacks and destroys corruption and renews both society and the individual. All forms of violent contention can be attributed to Mars to some extent, from 'peaceful' arguments and political struggles on up to full armed conflict.

    War can then be considered part of the normal functioning of the universe -- if not, why does it occupy such a high position on the Tree of Life? On the other hand, one must also consider the Qliphothic aspect of Mars, cruel and unbridled force, destroying for the sake of destruction.

    All I meant to bring into consideration by my original remark is this: war, like all things, is neither good nor evil, healthy nor unhealthy. The reasons for fighting matter, the way the fight is conducted matters, the outcome of the war and its costs matter. Only taking these into consideration as a whole is it possible to say that a particular war serves or disserves one's will. And of course, sometimes war is the only alternative to enslavement.

    What we should be very leery of is embracing only those parts of Geburah -- and therefore Horus, Ares, Tiw, etc. -- that are comfortable to our 'civilized' sensibilities. War is only one manifestation of the fiery, purging energy of Geburah, but it is an important and wholly legitimate one. It is also an aspect that is very strongly emphasized in Liber Legis. Most of the time, armed warfare is a tremendous waste, but not always. Most of the time, the war we need to be fighting is against the internal weaknesses that stand between us and our own wills, but not always. That the lord of this aeon is a war god should make us reluctant to make hasty generalizations about war.

    But in any event, we should be suspicious of unconsciously adopting the faux pacifism of the Christian society in which we are embedded, because that pacifism is little more than a way of keeping us under control until our Christian masters decide it is time for us to die in their causes.

    Love is the law, love under will.


    • Re: Why a War God?
      by Mordecai on Monday June 25, @10:16AM
      >Most of the time, the war we need to be fighting is against the internal
      >weaknesses that stand between us and our own wills, but not always.

      A crucial difference is that generally no one forces us into waging war on our internal weaknesses (in fact, it's often the opposite) while armed combat will generally be avoided by a "compassionate king" unless forced upon him or her by the agressions of another. I have often thought that perhaps after the millennia of warfare we have experienced under a "god of peace" it will be a war god who leads us to true peace (which as you point out is not the usual result of lying down and submitting to oppression).


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Shasu Ma'akheru on Monday June 25, @12:51PM
        A "compassionate king"? Compassion is the vice of kings.

        My interpretation of Liber Legis in this case is that compassion is almost always a form of egotism; it ultimately boils down to pitying someone because they aren't as well off as you think you are, and therefore think they ought to be. It is the vice of kings because the small men "feel little" -- they are not even capable of compassion.

        Either way, compassion is ultimately a form of disrespect for a Star and the necessary conditions of its orbit.


        • Re: Why a War God?
          by Mordecai on Monday June 25, @02:25PM
          I don't see it this way at all. What's wrong with vice? To me, displaying the vice of "true" compassion (not pity at all) is evidence that one is a king.


          • Re: Why a War God?
            by Libanus on Tuesday June 26, @01:45AM
            When people treat each other with compassion and common decency, it often has a very interesting effect--people actually begin to get along and form strong communities. At Thelema Lodge, I have seen that the compassion and love shown between members helps to bind the community together. That's what fraternity is for.

            The word of Sin is Restriction, and I won't restrict this vice--I will indulge in it.


          • Re: Why a War God?
            by Mordecai on Tuesday June 26, @05:29PM
            I guess to me it comes down to "Every man and every woman is a star." It doesn't mean you have to put up with bullshit in the name of moral superiority, it just means that you recognize that you are the center of the universe and so is everyone else. You can therefore empathize with them, put yourself in their place. You must decide by this exercise if they are "deserving" of your aid and assistance, but even if you adjudge them unworthy you have by this empathy shown them what I call "true" compassion.


          • Re: Why a War God?
            by Hor-Siva on Saturday June 30, @05:52PM
            I agree if it meant anything else, it would be the only place in the book where vice was defined as anything but virtue.


    Re: Why a War God?
    by Fra THA;M on Monday June 25, @10:12AM
    I often think that Horus, being the 'son' of Nuit and Hadit (who are macro/microcosmic elements of the magician) is more representantive of a resource of internal fortitude and strength lying often dormant within men and women.

    The fight for the ability to fulfill our True Wills and the assertion of our right to be individuals, often leads us into conflict with the laws of the land. But our Law supersedes those. The war-god Horus oversees and lends strength to those who fight the battle of the Individual, and to those who make WAR against those restrictive elements in society which make slaves of our fellow man.

    And War as that violent and frightful adventure of the human condition, which is played out on the stage of the world...a sad fact. But although utopia mongerers deride all forms of violence, it is a necessary tool of defense. Men have fought wars since time immemorial, and shall continue to fight them in the foreseeable future. Horus shall lend me strength, when the boot heels of the oppressors are grinding into the bodies of those I love (my brothers, sisters and Kings), to rise up strike down the villains with impunity, mercilessly, and without pity.

    Re: Why a War God?
    by King Knave on Monday June 25, @09:54PM
    ~volare~

    "WAR" what is it good for?
    absoluteley nothing?
    go ahead and say it Again!!!

    As a Christian with only an (albeit) periphrial
    understanding of Thelema, I take exception to yer contributor who essentially waits for the extinction of Christianity

    <<>>

    WoW~
    Almost Everyone that I've EVER known in my life that has had a positive,forward motion in my life has been Christian. In not only word...but deed!


    OK, so my grandfather didn't know Gnosis from Hellfire-
    He taught me to respect the earth.

    OK, so my Mother didn't know Isis from
    a belfry-
    She brought me forth through birth.


    Admit One


    MAMA ALWAYS TOLD ME
    not to look into
    The eyes of the Sun.

    but Mama
    thats where the fun is.


    Spruce Being Steen


    • Re: Why a War God?
      by Libanus on Tuesday June 26, @02:23AM
      --As a Christian with only an (albeit) periphrial
      understanding of Thelema, I take exception to yer contributor who essentially waits for the extinction of Christianity--

      I don't see anybody here saying that they are waiting for Christianity's extinction. However, I am curious as to one thing: Why, when you saw somebody give criticism to Christianity, did you respond with such hostility? As a Christian, surely you have some reasonable argument that you can pose here and actually enter the discussion with us. Instead, you misinterpret someone's statement, get defensive about your misinterpretation, and then imply that only Christians are "positive" and "forward-looking". May I ask in the future, if you decide that you want to post here again at all, that you contribute to the conversation and not just drop an indignant, prostelytizing bomb? It's comments like yours (among other things) that often cause many Thelemites to have negative opinions of Christianity in the first place. I agree that war is very often good for absolutely nothing, and that includes the war of words and religion that you are trying to start here.


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Nekial on Wednesday June 27, @06:18PM
        93

        I don't read any hostility in K.Knave's comment. Just his two bits, which (imo) say that Christians, in his experience, have made a positive difference in his life. Take it for what you will.

        He may have misinterpreted the comment, and he may have posted to the wrong thread, but where's this war of words? I see an alternate point of view with a bit of character. So?

        93, 93/93


    • Re: Why a War God?
      by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Tuesday June 26, @05:11AM
      ...fancy that, every damn chrustain that i have ever met, well had to deal with in some manner, was a total phony person, i could run a list down here, of all the tons of crap that i have had to wade through when it comes to christains, having said that on occasion i have been able to glide by them with out too much bad feeling, but as soon as you start on the prostitution of Gawd crap, i want to get out my sword and slice the kaves head off!
      king turd is more like it!

      oh how i loath them, and thier puky music on my radio!!!!...Horus protect and empower me aginst
      every old aeon ghost full of holes that mumbles
      thier litany of dead and dying gods, god that is..

      and leave Bruce out of this...he never sings about your corpse of a dog god!

      stay away from my brothers and sisters you leach!


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Tuesday June 26, @05:58AM
        ...excuse me if i don't sound civil, but i just hate christian thinking with a purple passion..
        and with good reason...i was raised as a catholic!

        peace and love, fire and light! 93 always...


        • Re: Why a War God?
          by jeezchrist godshiplaylahpoop on Tuesday June 26, @05:21PM
          [In the Shells.]


          • Re: Why a War God?
            by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Tuesday June 26, @07:59PM
            ...i really think you have an agenda, my experiance or lack of it, really is not your concern is it???....EH?

            or do you want to use more emotional blackmail
            to prove that Rome was right!?


            • Re: Why a War God?
              by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Tuesday June 26, @08:14PM
              ...ah' and there he goes again tring to use my name,
              moniker...whatever!

              ape me, what's that all about...(0)(-)


            • Re: Why a War God?
              by Mordecai on Tuesday June 26, @10:41PM
              >my experiance or lack of it, really is not your concern is it???....EH?

              It wasn't, until you brought it to my attention.

              >or do you want to use more emotional blackmail to prove that Rome was right!?

              I'm not blackmailing you, I'm just expressing an honest opinion. And even if you happened to be emotionally blackmailed by someone who calls themselves a Thelemite that would hardly "prove that Rome was right!?"


              • Re: Why a War God?
                by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Wednesday June 27, @12:10AM
                [In the Shells.]


                • Re: Why a War God?
                  by Mordecai on Wednesday June 27, @09:48AM
                  >people who call them selves thelemites can actually be still old aeon
                  >and just as false as christians.

                  I know you are, but what am I?


                  • Re: Why a War God?
                    by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Thursday June 28, @02:21AM
                    why you are nothing!


                    • Re: Why a War God?
                      by Mordecai on Thursday June 28, @09:59AM
                      y u r really something!


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Nekial on Wednesday June 27, @06:33PM
        93

        Hey! great diatribe of hate! But, what prostitition of gawd crap are you talking about?

        [incidentally, aren't we supposed to be toning down the vitriollic insults?]

        Love is the law, love under will.

        ~N


        • Re: Why a War God?
          by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Thursday June 28, @02:28AM
          N, i only mirror the way christans , attempt
          of overpower others with hiting them over the head with the bible, it is a reality!

          hope some so-called thelemites don't think that the Book of the Law, is to be used in the same fashion!...well physicaly speaking

          it would be pretty hard to bonk someone with
          a B.O.T.L.

          93 always!!!

          P.S. if my NoN sense bothers you, sorry i am not a technical person...


          • Re: Why a War God?
            by Nekial on Thursday July 19, @10:46PM
            93

            Not at all, Jazzcat.

            Keep writing!

            93, 93/93


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by King Knave on Friday June 29, @03:16PM
        but....
        but...
        but..



        I just...well...ummmm...but.....?
        WoW~
        let me just say this about that-
        (if I can compose myself after such a heated tarring...my l'il angel wings have been singed(:>))

        I call myself a Christian because I wish to align myself with Christ
        his teachings, and what the Early Church, the REAL CHURCH is all about. Most Christians that I speak to about religious matters, have no clue about where I'm coming from. Pained expressions...puzzled glances. They don't understand. I think most of Humanity is actually incapable of Understanding Their place in the Universe at this point in our civilization. The Big Religions offer them the pre-eschewed(?) essence, the watered down spirit
        trapped inside the bottle of...Dogma.....I tried once to talk to a religious Christian about the concept of Patmos John hooking down
        'shrooms or the "Soma" of the time, in order to receive the Revelation. I don't think I'll ever do THAT again.

        I find that I have a lot more in common with pagans and folks like you than I have with most Christians.(can someone be pagan AND christian?)
        hmmn.
        and as far as "Why a War, God?". ...
        I think that without friction of some sort, no real change can take place. No advancement in civilization. It Todays terms this does not nessasarily mean the suiting up of an army and invoking Mars, marching forth and slaughtering the critical masses. BUT does mean that it can not be good to be in stasis for to long, for stagnation
        is death. because we all have different wills different ideas we are all salespeople trying to make a sale. and by doing this we keep things moving along...
        War. What is it good for? Unfortunately at this point in our civilization I hate to say that it does serve a function. Blood that greases the giant cogs allowing the wheel to turn round.
        ...will this way go on forever?
        Perhaps within this new Aeon that you talk about
        this WAY will become as archaic as...an all-chrome diner! Perhaps we will trade in the dirty
        internal combustion engine for some new streamline
        full tilt boogie, 12-bar sooooul technology.
        criticalmassisthekeycriticalmassisthekey...
        I think that before things change for the better, the war god is gonna lay some heeeeavy shit on us
        and we are gonna wake up one morning to find in our beds some straaaange-ass bedfellows!!!


        So Jazzcat, you can put away yer shortsword and relax for but a while. I am not here to burn your house down. I just wanna root through yer library.

        B~ ......Desipere in loco..........


        • Re: Why a War God?
          by Xnoubis on Friday June 29, @03:49PM
          > Unfortunately at this point in our civilization
          > I hate to say that it does serve a function.

          I recently read somewhere the observation that one of the difficulties in working towards peace is that, for much of humanity, war is actually a step up. There's a good chance of dying in combat, but there's also food, clothing, and shelter, which may not be available in civilian life.


          • Re: Why a War God?
            by King Knave on Friday June 29, @09:26PM
            absolutely.
            kinda like the desperate street thug who has nothing left to lose so he continues to rob, kill and pillage. Knowing that if he gets busted
            he trades one hell for an other. But the other, at least provides 3 squares, shelter, friends within earshot and enemies that he can keep an eye on. (being on the front line as it were)

            B~


    • Re: Why a War God?
      by Xnoubis on Tuesday June 26, @10:04AM
      King Knave's post evoked an image for me that could have been a Far Side cartoon. A lamb goes into a wolf bar saying, "Howdy! I'm from out of town. What do y'all drink 'round here?"

      I'm a big advocate of tolerance amongst religions. An important thing to know about Thelema, though, is that rebellion against Christianity is very close to the core of the tradition.

      Thelemites have different ways of dealing with this. For many, it's simple: rebel against all manifestations of Christianity that come their way. For me, anti-Christian sentiment is appropriate amongst those who share it. Christianity symbolizes all that which is to be cast out. Christ is the false ego. The Christian church is the bastion of oppression. And so on. But I recognize that when I'm amongst Christians, they're not using the same symbol set. In fact, they're doing something to my horned god that's very similar to what I'm doing to their nailed one. So in that context, I try to use language that's not dependent on the differences in our symbols.

      The Beast Bay, though, is clearly intended to be a Thelemic context. So while I'll hope that no one is given too hard a time (and no one wants to hear me do my Sister Mary Elephant routine, right?), don't be surprised if you raise a few hackles with postings that are unreservedly supportive of Christianity.

      That being said, I don't see any hostility in the post, unlike Libanus, just a contrasting point of view. And I don't see that there's a misunderstanding of Shasu Ma'akheru's position, although it was not made in this thread, but in the "Future of New Religions" one.


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Jon Auviere on Tuesday June 26, @11:11AM
        Heil Sashu and Fra. Tham!

        I was wondering and being very supportive of your views - as I can relate to each of the styles you both implement (in fact, I feel as though I couldn't have said my views better!) that if either of you had a website with your writings I'd be very interested in reading them? (Of course, I value artistic and literary expression, and would in no wise pilfer your style or 'trademark sayings'.) But in any case, may the gods be with you!


        • Re: Why a War God?
          by Fra THA;M on Wednesday June 27, @12:05AM
          My words are a benediction to those who revile me, and a curse and malediction unto those lean in to catch my whispers. I know Naught.


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Mordecai on Tuesday June 26, @12:33PM
        One man's horn is another man's nail? Actually a case could be made for Thelema as a properly reformed sort of Christianity, with the Revelation of John being the key to the relationship between "orthodox" Christianity and its Thelemic successor. Of course this kind of talk just drives Thelemic fundies to distraction. No wonder I do it :-)


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Libanus on Wednesday June 27, @11:11PM
        Xnoubis,

        Okay, I probably saw more in Knave's comment than was there. I'm sorry if I over-reacted--I'll try to keep what you said in mind. But, an interesting butterfly effect of comments seems to have been triggered by it, eh?

        :)

        --Libanus


    Re: Why a War God?
    by Marfiza on Tuesday June 26, @11:48AM
    Some while back, my friend Pat sent a copy of AL to a longtime friend of hers, who was curious about what she was up to spiritually nowadays, and who happens to be a Baptist minister. He went straight up and turned left, as you might well imagine. Pat asked me if I could possibly articulate what Chapter III might be about, and I allowed as to how, yes, I thought I probably could.

    I don't see our RHK (think of the alchemists' "our gold", "our mercury" ...) as a god of mere mundane war. He's a force to purge US, a wrathful bodhisatva, if you like. Here's something I wrote in reply to the minister's questions (and you can read the whole letter I wrote here: http://www.elfhill.com/leighann/writings/al.html) --


    > Chapter III
    > is the statement of evil that is not veiled or hidden in allegory
    > including a call for the blood of children.

    As for Chapter III, did it occur to you that maybe the whole thing is in fact an allegory? That the expressions of war and violence are directed to aspects of oneself? That this section and its
    subsequents:

    49. I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men.
    50.Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!

    are actually the clearest possible statement that the gods of men are obstacles to the supernal? There's contradiction here, of course, since Ra Hoor Khuit is also one of the "gods of men" but
    my feeling for this is that RHK's book is entirely about breaking down, by violence to one's preconceptions if necessary, the barrier between the individual and the supernal.

    Now that I think about it, actually, all three books are about bringing the individual and the supernal together; Nuit is all-receptive, and with her the individual expands to meet the supernal;
    Hadit is all-expansive, and with him the individual contracts to meet the supernal. Both of these methods are for people who are able to ease past the barriers set up for them and by them, by
    their upbringings, their surroundings, their experiences; for those who can't do that, Ra Hoor Khuit is there to burn and scour and destroy those barriers for them:


    7. I will give you a war-engine.
    17. ...Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.

    So no, the violence isn't hidden in allegory -- it is the allegory.


    Just my $.93.

         - M

    • Re: Why a War God?
      by Jon Auviere on Tuesday June 26, @12:10PM
      Marfiza,

      Remember always that there are 3 ways that the holy book may be interpreted; and all are valid.

      The first is in practice. As for ch. 3 there are strong ties to revolution, as it appears to the immediate cause of humanity. (The Nazis gathered inspiration from this point of Thelema--gods bless Asatru!.)

      The second is Philosophical. And this seems to be in line with the emotional aspects of man and of similar to what you have discussed with the obstacles of the spiritual against the vessel of man itself.

      The third is Theoretical. It deals thusly with the highest grade of the Magus. From the Adeptus Minor the pupil enters the realm of claivoyance and therefore there are aspects adherent to that practice which are detailed in this chapter, if not the other two chapters as well, of the law.

      But keep in mind that all three views are separate, yet they overlap in certain yet specific ways. You are familiar with the doctrines of the U.R. et O.O. yes? -that is no joke!


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Mordecai on Tuesday June 26, @12:39PM
        >there are aspects adherent to that practice which are detailed in this chapter,
        >if not the other two chapters as well, of the law

        Quite so. The interweaving of themes between the various folds (i.e., "threefold book of law") is very extensive. The direful judgments of RHK are mentioned in the first fold for a reason.


    • Re: Why a War God?
      by Aleph on Tuesday June 26, @02:12PM
      93 Marfiza,

      Missed a couple of real straightforward meanings:

      "Sacrifice cattle, little and big: after a child."

      Sounds like a wealthy person's temple offering of thanksgiving after a successful delivery. Don't know enough about Temple Judaism to know whether this was a tradition or not, but I suspect it was among those who could afford it.

      "The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child..."

      Could easily refer to afterbirth. Certainly following 'blood ... of the moon', such an interpretation has some merit. I've also always wondered why everyone always seems to assume that you have to kill something to get its blood. Haven't they ever cut themselves shaving?

      93 93/93
      Aleph


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Fra THA;M on Wednesday June 27, @12:32AM
        Sacrafice cattle, little and big: after a child.

        Cattle are beasts, as are we. Perhaps the cattle refered to are (Wo)Men. And to sacrifice them based on a model presented by the example of children...I generally read this allegorically. We must often sacrifice our connections to the men and women we encounter while following the trajectory of our truest Wills. Love, relationships, friendships; all of these must be made subject to the Great Work. We are all at one time or another confronted by the choice between the Work of our Wills, and the easier choice of giving it up for another individual. And what sacrafice would prove our devotion to our supernal triad most? That of cattle. A sacrafice of the herd which mills so complacent in the pastures of mediocrity. A sacrafice of security and comfort. perhaps this is so, perhaps not. Only Dog knows.


        • Re: Why a War God?
          by Jon Auviere on Wednesday June 27, @07:03AM
          Perhaps there is some connection to the Blots held in tradition of Asatru? Notice in the previous paragraph is the phrase "Trample down the Heathen" ..."I will give you of their flesh to eat."

          In a sense, the Heathen referred here could be the Heathen Gods; for those strong in battle are brutish by conduct.

          Clearly an oppositional path to that of slave worship.


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by Marfiza on Thursday June 28, @10:00PM
        > "Sacrifice cattle, little and big: after a child."
        > Sounds like a wealthy person's temple offering of thanksgiving after a successful delivery.

        Ah ya. It's hard for me sometimes; I tend to forget to express stuff I'm thinking, on the erroneous assumption that I've already said it... :/ But that's been my reading of that passage for basically ever. Good point, thanks, and when (if) I ever get round to writing up my pestilence formally, I'll be sure to remember.

        "The stops as thou wilt",
             - M


    Re: Why a War God?
    by Micha deBarca on Wednesday June 27, @03:28AM
    Well... why an anti-christ?
    This overthrowing of the old regimes does not come easy.
    So there is the subtle way of Nuit's secret servants and the rough and tumble way of Hadit's
    hermits.
    Anyways, if one can look at the muslim faith as an example of how it all may turn out (conflict-wise), then it is a god of war by necessity.

    ...anyone taken a look at Michael as 'sword of god', whereas Gabriel is 'friend of god'?
    Supposedly Michael was also the destroyer of the Nephilim, the offspring of the angelical realm
    and wo/men (in apocryphal sources ofcourse).

    ...tricky bit to me seems Horus avenging Osiris by killing Set, which symbolically might suggest the balance? So "satanic pride" is not the be-all and end-all. *winks*

    But beyond these vague musings, I must admit that I: a) don't know, and b) can't be bothered.
    Moralising, flaming?
    The exposure of innocence is a lie.

    Ciao, Javelin_

    • Re: Why a War God?
      by Fra THA;M on Wednesday June 27, @02:57PM
      The anti-christ has been born, but has now passed on to the lake of fire, to sunbathe at its shore. The apocalypse has taken place. It was a personal conflict whereby the Sun of God (ShMsh YHVH-do the gematria...) came and overthrew the restriction of my christian upbringing. Of course I am speaking metaphorically.


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Friday June 29, @04:00PM
        of course of course of course, and his name is
        mister ON

        because because because, of the wonderful things he ...does?

        ...oh bro thelemitey, speak the metaphor, as the secret of it is it rimes with THE WHORE...!

        open the door and she shall let yu in!

        the jazzcat be laying the rebop down, ya listen
        to the tunes, and they shall set you free...

        oh when the thelemitys oh when the thelemitys
        oh when the thelemite go marchin in, oh i want to be in that 666 no. when the saints go marchin in...


    Re: Why a War God?
    by Anthony on Monday July 02, @02:12AM
    Right if I promise not to be a naughty boy any more can I join in on this one.

    I think - the sacrifice of cattle means the sacrifice of the part of ourselves that wants to live an easy contented existence.

    The sacrifice of the child - a magickal child - horus himself - is indeed born thru the practice of Liber Al - and that child has to be distinguished from the ego otherwise one goes insane.

    AND - it is the sacrifice of the childish aspects of ourselves, getting really serious and with it and realising that at this level we can not play at life any more because it becomes real and reality is dangerous, hence the vow of Silence comes shortly after.

    Is my interpretation.
    I mean, that's what it meant to me.
    It might mean other things to other people and not these things at all, but I can't possibly know that, this is what it meant to me last week, in a year's time it might mean something different, but this is a limited time-bound interpretation of events. Ok?

    • Re: Why a War God?
      by me on Wednesday July 11, @12:38PM
      >the sacrifice of cattle means the sacrifice of the part of ourselves that wants to live an easy contented existence

      You thought wrong. It means sacrifice cattle and eat them. It draws a parallel of nourishment into the next:

      >The sacrifice of the child - a magickal child - horus himself - is indeed born thru the practice of Liber Al - and that child has to be distinguished from the ego otherwise one goes insane.

      No. Horus is not just a child. Nor does the book say to sacrifice a child. It says "after a child". The nourishment one receives whether self-indulgent or no must be incorporated with the ego or conscious self. Else, what is the point of magick? Again, meet clairvoyance.

      >in a year's time it might mean something different, but this is a limited time-bound interpretation of events. Ok?

      No. The meaning never changes. Your conscious desire does. Listen, when they say remove ego they mean in a sense "believe what I say". And moreso "Become all" and therefore "Know all." Until then...!


      • Re: Why a War God?
        by me on Wednesday July 11, @12:41PM
        Before you go crazy on me you should understand that Crowley didn't want people to interpret his stuff as Oriental and mysterious. He demands Common Sense. And if you don't believe me read the first part of 8 Lectures on Yoga, preferably before replying.



     
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