Welcome to The Beast Bay General Thelema Science Art Scholarship The Beast Bay website
 up a level
 search
 main


  Teen Witchcraft and Religion
Magick Posted by Jennifer on July 06, 2001 @ 09:53 PM
from the spells-like-teen-spirit dept.

I am a 16 year old teenager who has to deal with witchcraft and religion everyday. Being that I am wiccan, I often get critized or interrogated -- mostly by Christians. I have many problems with religion. I am the way I am, not because of TV sitcoms such as "Charmed" or "Sabrina" or any other show wrongly portraying the life of a witch. I wish that all people, young and old, would get educated on the topic of witchcraft since there are so many types.

Also, being a witch, I strive to know more and enhance my abilities. I think of them as gifts. I would like to find other teens like me who are on the verge of fully understanding and utilzing their own gifts.

I know many people that are devout Christians who find what I do evil. Let me assure you that I am not evil. What I do is open my mind to what is around me. I let my soul take in everything.

I am, like most teens I know who practice witchcraft, confused. I know I have a "sixth sense," but I cannot develop as I would like to. I would love to find someone who can enlighten me on how to develop my skills.

But I do have a lot of problems with "God." I find him, to be quite frank, repulsive and disgusting. The ways of Christians and other followers of God simply piss me off. I have delt with so many arguements on religion. I feel that the whole religion system in itself is messed up beyond redemption. People place their whole life into a book that they don't even know of as factual or not. We have been raised to believe that the Bible is true and that we should believe everything in it or we shall be punished and suffer total damnation for all eternity in Hell. Man wrote the Bible, so in it there is cause for error, because man by definition has errors. If man was infallible then he would not be man, he would be a god. So I have problems with people who put so much of themselves into the Bible when in fact it could be wrong.

I feel that people who think homosexuality is wrong are wrong themselves. There is nothing wrong with having feelings for people of the same sex. And for all you Christians, God made them that way, so don't you dare preach to them and try to change who they are, because you will be changing God's will.

And when people tell me that God has a plan for everyone I get very mad, because I look around and see all these people suffering and I think, is this God's almighty plan to have this person suffer like this... why? Why does God put people on this earth just to suffer? That thought pains me. I have more opinions on religion but I am sure you are tired of my opinions, and I did not mean to offend anyone, but this was my opinion. But if anyone would like to talk to me on religion, please e-mail me.



<  |  >

 

  Related Links
  • Articles on Magick
  • Also by Jennifer
  • Contact author
  • The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them.


    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by the Reverend Rob on Sunday July 08, @09:52PM
    I understand it's probably your age talking here, but there is far more to Christianity than you project, and not all Christians are as you say.

    Then again, some of us don't have a problem with Satan, or Thelema, or paganism, and actively work with the ideas and practices involved in traditions that quite frankly I won't discuss for ethical reasons with an admitted minor.

    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
      by Jennifer on Monday July 09, @08:35PM
      Haha, oh I find that funny, no offense, but I understand that it is not my age that is talking here. The christians that I have met have not been a good role models towards me. They are not true Christians. But don't think that I don't know that there are good Christians out there but I have yet to see one guess it's where I live or my high standards for Christians. But if they are going to act all hig hand mighty I am going to have high standards for them. And all the adult Christians are acting like you are. You won't explain anything to me so I am left to see Christianity as I see it around me. And just because i am a minor does not mean I am stupid, but then again I have no one to teach me and I have tried to find preachers who will talk to me but alas I have found none. But its unethical for you to talk to me so I guess that's their reasons to.


      • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
        by the Reverend Rob on Monday July 09, @09:01PM
        Haha, oh I find that funny, no offense, but I
        understand that it is not my age that is talking here.


        Actually, it is. The poor construction of logic, the assumptions made towards religions, and the whole attitude expressed in your other posts in this thread say it all.

        The christians that I have met have not been a good role models towards me.

        Perhaps when you stop acting like a child, they'll treat you like an adult.

        They are not true Christians.

        If you can judge someone's true religious stripe, so can anyone else. I'll take up the baton you offer and berate you, kid.

        But don't think that I don't know that there are good Christians out there but I have yet to see one guess it's where I live or my high standards for Christians.

        When you spend a majority of your post attacking Christians and God and make mass assumptions towards what they believe, I have to wonder where these 'high standards' come from. If I were to apply similarly high standards to you, I'd think you were some teenage poseur.

        Oops, you may well be.

        But if they are going to act all hig hand mighty I am going to have high standards for them.

        And those you beseech for instruction, explanation, and assistance will have high standards for you.

        And all the adult Christians are acting like you are.

        I wish all the adult Christians acted like I do. It would make Christianity a much nicer place.

        You won't explain anything to me so I am left to see Christianity as I see it around me.

        You seem to be hung up on the obligations of others to assist you here; the rest of the world is not your mommy, nor are we required to hold out a teat upon which you can suck.

        And just because i am a minor does not mean I am stupid,

        Well, in this case, it's your actions that define you as stupid. Your age is a secondary characteristic of your stupidity.

        but then again I have no one to teach me and I have tried to find preachers who will talk to me but alas I have found none.

        Perhaps that's because you don't wish to talk to anyone; you wish to make demands and attack their faith with blissful little understanding.

        When you act like a child, don't be surprised when you receive condescension like one.

        But its unethical for you to talk to me so I guess that's their reasons to.

        Actually, the reason it's unethical is that my particular flavor of Christianity, Satanism, and Thelema has intense sexual elements, and I'm not going to be the poster child for corrupting an ignorant minor. You're not even worth the consultation fee to my lawyer here.


        • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
          by Jennifer on Tuesday July 10, @03:21PM
          Ok Reverend, you don't know me and you don't know how I act. You are assuming that I am a rebellous close-minded child. I have never onced attacked anyone that I have talked to about religion. I listen to them and what they have to say.
          ' I wish all the adult Christians acted like I do. It would make Christianity a much nicer place" Thats awfully conceited don't you think?
          Get off your high horse Reverend. And like I said you don't know me and I don't know you and the only people I judge are people I know. They are free to judge me to and I could care less about their judgment.
          I am not hung up on the obligations of others to teach me, but don't expect me to know what you are talking about when you say Thelema when I have no one to explain it to me. But hey why should you waste your time on me? I am after all and ignorant little child so don't waste your time replying. Have a good life Reverend.


          • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
            by canopuscarina on Wednesday July 18, @06:41PM
            JEnnifer.
            I think you're probably a really smart
            kid and it seems like you want to learn a lot.
            But attacking and defending when no weapons are being used will get you no where. Read a book, and open up. You'll find that being opinionated is useless.
            As for you reverend... She's only 16!
            And it's obvious she's just confused about her
            learning strategy. And I don't think of you as the better man because you have sharper weapons.


        • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
          by crystal on Saturday February 02, @09:17AM
          Listen dude.. i dont know who you are.. but you are so fucked. You are acting like the rudest person i ever met. this poor girl is trying to find out more about what you beleive in but all you do is mock her. you are pathetic. i was on the verge of my religion, but i wasnt sure about what i belived in. but thanks to you youve made it very very clear that christianity is not the way to go. thank you.
          and jennifer, doesn't it make you wonder.. that christians like mr bob here are giveing out rude impressions of christianity.. is really a christain at all?


    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by Anathema Maranatha on Monday July 09, @01:10AM
    Teenwitch writes: "I would love to find someone who can enlighten me on how to develop my skills."

    Tip #1 -No one can enlighten you other than yourself. There is no one on this planet who can come on over, wave their magic-crystal-feather-wand and make you suddenly psychic. Unless this sort of thing comes to you naturally, the only way to reach your desired level of ability is by dedication and hard work... learn, study and DO your craft. As the old saying goes, practice makes perfect.

    There are plenty of books available these days geared towards developing psychic abilities, intuition, sixth sense, magical prowess and what not, as well as a ton of books about witchcraft and wicca. Some of them are total crap, some of them are very useful. Check out some of the classic authors like Scott Cunningham, Raymond Buckland, and Starhawk to name a few just to get your basics down. There are also a few books out geared specifically towards people your age who are getting into magic and witchcraft, although having not read them, I can't say whether they are any good. Check out Raven Silverwolf's book called something like "Teen Wicca". I don't know how good the magical advice is but I know the book provides some good ways to handle the fact that you are a teen going against the grain. Most of the books out there for adults getting into witchcraft are written so that anyone at any age can understand them. You seem fairly intelligent so I'm sure this stuff won't be too over your head. As stated before though, enlightenment will not be found in a book, your going to have to go and hunt it down through your own experiences and experiments.

    That said, I'm not sure what made you decide to post on this site as it's not really a site about witchcraft or wicca. It is a site geared towards adults who practice Thelema, which is not something you seem to be expressing any interest in. I'm not saying that you are not welcome here, just that there are other resources out there that are probably more in alignment with what you are seeking. Type in "teen witchcraft" or "wicca for teens" into any search engine and once you filter through all the porn sites that come up, you'll probably find some helpful leads. Here's a couple I just found which look like good starting points. You probably don't need me to tell you this but there are plenty of lecherous losers out on the internet just waiting for well meaning teen girls like you to come along and ask them for help. Don't trust anyone who promises they can show you the way to enlightenment because they are handing you a big fat lie.


    http://www.witchvox.com/xteen.html



    http://www.witchvox.net/links/net_teen.html



    http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/witchcraft4teens


    You also say: "I wish that all people, young and old, would get educated on the topic of witchcraft since there are so many types."

    Sorry honey, but it ain't gonna happen. My advice would be not to be so concerned about what others are thinking and doing and to just focus on what it is you want to do and accomplish in your own life. The table could be turned on you... the Christians which you are so bothered by would probably love it if you took the time to learn more about Christianity... you know, there are many different types! Believe it or not, there are Christians out there who accept alternative religions and spirituality without a problem, so you don't need to hate them all. You'll be surprised to eventually learn of all the similarities to be found in both Christian and Wiccan beliefs. There are also those who will never accept it and there is very little you can do (especially at your ripe young age) to change their minds, so don't bother wasting your precious time. To sum up, here is an excellent little q & a I am borrowing from The Church of Satan website. While it is addressing Satanism and not Wicca, the advice is totally applicable to your situation, whether with Christians, parents, teachers, or whoever else it is that is giving you grief. Just insert the words wicca, witchcraft or goddess wherever it says Satan or Satanism. Anyhow, good luck with your quest!

    qoute from CoS site:

    ---------------------

    My parents and friends don’t understand me, and don’t approve of my interest in Satanism. How can I make them accept my beliefs, and where can I go to perform my rituals?


    Unfortunately, most young Satanists face this problem. Few of us are lucky enough to have sympathetic parents, or others around like ourselves. However, as long as you are living under your parents’ roof and they are feeding and taking care of you, you do owe them a degree of consideration. Offer to let them read your books, and talk about what misunderstandings they may have from T.V. talk shows and Christian propaganda. But you can’t force anyone to understand what, for you, is an obvious and magical revelation. If Satanism offends others who have necessary control over your life right now, do your studies and rituals in private. If you don’t have a place at home where you can be alone, find a special spot on the beach, in a field, or in the woods where you can ritualize when you need to. While you are understandably enthusiastic about your new-found religion, it is not very Satanic to make yourself miserable by creating a problem with your parents when you have to live in the same house together, or at school where your real goal may be to aggravate those in authority in the guise of “expressing your individuality.”

    Practice Lesser Magic. Remember that a competent Satanic magician should be able to size up any situation and weigh his choices of action to bring about desired results. Enthusiasm is certainly encouraged and appreciated, however Satanism asks no one to be a martyr. And keep in mind that most people simply aren’t going to understand because, ultimately, they don’t want to. That is as it should be. Satanism is not for everyone. Satan, by his very nature, walks alone. He is the true individualist, the outcast. This doesn’t mean that you cannot care about those who are close to you; Satan also represents love, kindness and respect to those who deserve it. It just means that you should not concern yourself with people who do not approve of you. Revel in your uniqueness; be proud of who and what you are. Achieve all you can with the strength and determination of Satan himself coursing proudly through your veins. When Satanism leads to positive changes in your accomplishments and attitude, your parents and other adults around you will notice. The best way you can represent Satanism is by providing a living example of how the diabolical arts have made you a stronger, more focused person. The results will speak louder than any logical argument you can present.
    --------------

    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
      by me on Monday July 09, @10:22AM
      Sorry if this is unwarranted. But the tone and mindset these two posters above have taken just makes me wanna puke. Is it that you can't handle the fact that a sixteen year old has aspirations and opinions? Or is it a label thang? Cringe at the first sight of 'wicca'? If this behavior is a sign of old age then you can count me out!


      • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
        by Xnoubis on Monday July 09, @10:32AM
        What seems to be the problem? Anathema Maranatha's post in particular seems to be right on message, as far as I can see.


        • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
          by me on Monday July 09, @12:17PM
          It's his premise that age is the deciding factor of what one should be into. I mean Jennifer's original thread seemed to me very sweet and intelligent - so why (and even if it weren't) should anyone put her in some small-minded category as "teen witch" or "witchcraft for teens"? (She did mention that she doesn't like to be categorized by such standards as the Sabrina witch- and this similar stature that was imposed on her is no different than, I will say, bigoted societal programs of the norm.) It seems to me very derogatory, although I will give it that her post appeared "abnormal" to the usual article that you might find on this forum. Sorry - just my thoughts.

          Now this is a Thelemic group. Maybe there is someone that she could've got in touch with that will help her in such an area? If yes, I wish her well.


          • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
            by Anathema Maranatha on Monday July 09, @04:31PM
            "It's his premise that age is the deciding factor of what one should be into.

            I am a she, not a he. Don't project your assumptions on to me or what I have written. She clearly states (and shows) her age and what she is into. This is not my premise, this is based directly on her post.

            "I mean Jennifer's original thread seemed to me very sweet and intelligent - so why (and even if it weren't) should anyone put her in some small-minded category as "teen witch" or "witchcraft for teens"?

            Acknowledging someones age does not instantly make one small minded. She begin her post by stating her age and that she was a wiccan. Therefore calling her "teen witch" and suggesting a real book called "witchcraft for teens" (which is written for people asking the same exact questions that she has) does not appear to be out of line, in my opinion. She says "I would like to find other teens like me who are on the verge of fully understanding and utilzing their own gifts." So I listed authors that helped me when I was a young tike starting along the wichcraft path, and I went out of my way (for no reason other than insomnia) to seek out some cool and useful, and non-condescending websites which might be helpful for her in that regard.

            "(She did mention that she doesn't like to be categorized by such standards as the Sabrina witch- "

            Something she is going to have to get used to in this day and age. A little bit of sarcasm never hurt anybody. This generation gets called "Sabrina" or "Charmed" or "Buffy"... my generation got "Beetlguise" and "Witchipoo". So what? Previous generations got "Heretic" and "Blasphemer" and were burned to a crisp or had their toe nails yanked out one by one. In comparision Jennifer has it easy. If one stands up in the crowd, announcing themselves with a calling card like "Hi, I am a 16 year old girl Wiccan looking for someone to enlighten me" she is bound to get called out... or called some funny names, or much worse. Not that I feel I said anything so out of line to her that would cause you to "wanna puke", but whatever... I hope you feel better soon.

            "and this similar stature that was imposed on her is no different than, I will say, bigoted societal programs of the norm.) It seems to me very derogatory,..."

            Then you must have gone into reading my post wanting to interpret it that way from the start. For the most part, my post to Jennifer was written very respectfully, although it did have a small bit of humour in it, which I guess you failed to pick up on because you were so busy hoping to find something in it that the ACLU might get excited about. "bigoted societal programs of the norm"? Really? Where? Did any bigots ever suggest someone read Starhawk or offer the advice of the Church of Satan in dealing with parents and Christians? Dude, get off the politically correct trip and be real. You are doing more of what you are accusing me of (and the other poster) by expecting us to talk down to her and tone down our reaction and replies because she is 16. I didn't speak to her as if she was a 5 year old idiot, I spoke to her in a manner which would have been very helpful to me if someone would have given me similar advice at her age.

            "Now this is a Thelemic group. Maybe there is someone that she could've got in touch with that will help her in such an area? If yes, I wish her well."

            She did not express any interest in Thelema or Thelemic groups, her entire post was about Wicca and being mad at God. Shall we start shoving Thelema down her young throat because for whatever reason she ended up wandering onto this site? Yeah, maybe exploring Thelema would help her and maybe in time she will delve into it deeper, but still it has nothing to do with her post or the questions she was asking. The best help anyone can give her is exactly what I already offered up... that she will need to go out and study and learn and do the work if she wants to understand her craft and advance her abilities. Finding a coven or a guru at this point would probably be more harmful to her than anything. When magicians start out young, the usual, and my opinion, best path is to start out solitary. That means reading books till your eyes fall out, researching till you are blue in the face and practicing until you achieve the results you are after (and then practicing some more). When the time comes along to join with others or to receive outside intervention, this path will be made quite obvious and clear on it's own without having to ask for it on a forum such as this. In the meantime it will behoove her to get solid on her own two feet with the facts and fallicies of the path she is choosing to take. This applies to Thelema as well as it does to Wicca as well as it does to playing the piano or anything else.

            Why do you feel the need to have to defend her? Is it because she is a 16 year old girl? That is much more puke worthy than anything I have written. If she felt offended by my tone or the way I addressed her post, I'm sure that she is more than able to say so for herself. Aside from your over reaction to my post, your comments offer her very little (i.e. nothing) in terms of being anything which will be of any use to her whatsoever. In the meantime if she decided to follow up on even one of the suggestions I offered, she would be well on her way to, at the very least, discovering some interesting stuff with the potential to lead to further such discovery. You accuse me of being small-minded... in reality it's this " lets coddle and protect her because she is young" philosophy of yours which is the least likely to produce anything for her of much value.


            • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
              by Jennifer on Monday July 09, @08:29PM
              Wow, well first off like I said I had no clue as to what I stumbled into. I guess I should have read more about this site to see that it was for Thelema. I'm sorry to mess up your Thelemic world here like it's a big deal or anything. But I don't see anyone tryng to tell me what Thelema is all about. And I feel that I can handle knowing about Thelema so don't assume I can't handle it. So until someone attempts to even explain, even in the littlest bit, I will stil have no idea what you are all debating about. So I'm still lost on Thelema...so L8r


            • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
              by me on Tuesday July 10, @07:14AM
              Shall we start shoving Thelema down her young throat because for whatever reason she ended up wandering onto this site?

              Just being here is a damn fine reason.

              Not only should you but you are more or less obligated to do so. The only reason you wouldn't of course is that if you were somehow ashamed of Thelema, as Rev. Rob says Thelema's sexual content "perverts and corrupts" young minds.


              • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                by Anathema Maranatha on Tuesday July 10, @03:36PM
                Obligated to? By whom or by what? Perhaps your version of Thelema compels you to force your beliefs upon others. The only rule I am obliged to live by in my version of Thelema is 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'.

                I will do just that and leave the converting tactics to the zealots like yourself. Maybe you can join up with the JeHo Witnesses that come around knocking on doors and waking people up early on Sunday mornings to solicit their god to the heathens. When they are not looking you can slip in a Liber AL and perhaps get yourself a couple of young disciples for the cause.

                It's so ironic as to be funny that you accuse myself and The Reverend of perpetuating "bigoted societal programs of the norm" yet your whole approach here seems to be that of wanting to impose your religion upon others whether they are interested in it or not.

                And still, you have said nothing helpful to address the girls original questions, nor have you offered her one iota of information about Thelema... you just rally against others for not doing for you. Whatever.


              • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                by the Reverend Rob on Thursday July 12, @03:58AM
                Actually, I nowhere state that "as Rev. Rob says Thelema's sexual content "perverts and corrupts" young minds."

                In my case, it's a matter of civil liability versus worthiness to me of the cause involved, or in simple terms, "this crime isn't worth the time." Should someone else feel otherwise, I won't do a thing to stop them.

                At the same time, I'm all for recommending that minors spend their time learning to interact with people and society, before purposefully setting themselves apart from it later. If you want to do magick later that will involve society, you best understand it, and the easiest way to do that is to gather experience when still young enough to observe, make stupid mistakes, and take notes about reactions.


            • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
              by me on Tuesday July 10, @09:41AM
              [In the Shells]


              • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                by me on Tuesday July 10, @11:24AM
                How did this get here? Hmm. Rev Rob's grossly disgusting posts are not? Is this persecution because I defend outcast teen?


                • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                  by Xnoubis on Tuesday July 10, @12:04PM
                  If you would have left an email address, we could have discussed this off-site. The thing is, the Reverend's most recent post struck me as unfriendly too, but he did not go so far as to directly attack. You, in your defense of Jennifer, did directly attack Rob via the "slimeball" remark.

                  I thought it was interesting that the Reverend, who must have achieved fame by now as that most exotic of creatures, the Republican Thelemite, takes the stance that I would have predicted based on my acquantance with the work of George Lakoff. In brief: the difference between the conservative and liberal worldviews can be seen in the differing attitudes towards child-rearing. Liberals tend to nurture, conservatives tend to uphold principle and uprightness.

                  And so, although I was taken aback by his approach, I suspect that he's doing what he feels is best for her. I do know people (not me!) who remember with gratitude the tough treatment they received from their elders...


                  • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                    by me on Tuesday July 10, @01:29PM
                    >he did not go so far as to directly attack.

                    I read it differently. More as "he stomped on her."

                    >directly attack Rob via the "slimeball"

                    And that was being nice! ;) Now that I think about it, I dislike all conservatives.

                    >In brief: the difference between the conservative and liberal worldviews can be seen in the differing attitudes towards child-rearing.

                    Very interesting! I will remember this--though I don't like it in the least. ;) However, I never thought that he was doing what he supposed was best. I've seen Rob's posts beore and they were all seeming very mean and inflammatory. Now that I know his political agenda I will read them differently. Indeed if this doesn't rise him to fame!


                    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                      by the Reverend Rob on Thursday July 12, @04:00AM
                      Now that I know his political agenda I will read them differently.

                      Since you know my political agenda, please tell me what it is so I can act upon it. :)

                      Seriously, I doubt there's enough here for you to figure out from whence I come or why, but it's easy ultimately to pidgeonhole conservatives in greater society, and even easier to do so in a subculture where they are even more rare and vilified.

                      Thanks for the publicity, btw.


                  • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                    by Jennifer on Tuesday July 10, @03:29PM
                    Hey I am wondering where you got the slimeball thing? When did I call him a slimeball pray tell?


                  • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                    by the Reverend Rob on Thursday July 12, @03:53AM
                    Ultimately, it's not my job to coddle or be artificially nice; the grand irony is that in five or ten years, if the kid is still involved with alternative spirituality, they'll probably have a greater understanding of the method behind my apparent madness. If you'll go back and examine the thread in sequence, you'll note that I escalate in accordance with the Will (or, as it may be in this case, whim) of the individual to overgeneralize or issue blanket condemnations.

                    As far as the nurture v. principle argument, I look at it from a bit more of a simpler approach: it boils down to simply expecting those who want to be adult or to get adult information to act responsibly. I suppose there is a degree of principle involved, though, simply because I refuse to reward based on what I consider to be unlaudable actions. Within the context of how I view Thelema, it's that responsibility and focus, embodied by will, that must take precedence over the unbridled emotions and all that implies associated with love.


                    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                      by me on Thursday July 12, @08:15AM
                      I will only wonder what your reaction would be if it were an adult who posted it and the wording was slightly different. It boggles the mind however that those who are interested in "spiritual alternatives" are so few in number, and yet we cudgel them over the head for want of the price. There is nothing so dangerous in the path as you seem to imply any more than there is risk of a falling bull on your local street.


                      • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
                        by the Reverend Rob on Thursday July 12, @03:02PM
                        I will only wonder what your reaction would be if it were an adult who posted it and the wording was slightly different.

                        An adult would have gotten a much harsher initial response, most likely.

                        It boggles the mind however that those who are interested in "spiritual alternatives" are so few in number,

                        Perhaps there's a want of them where you are, but in most major metro areas there are more than you could beat off with a stick.

                        and yet we cudgel them over the head for want of the price.

                        In this case, it's the price set by this shopkeeper; if you or anyone else wants to haggle over the price of a black hen, perhaps it's not for you.

                        There is nothing so dangerous in the path as you seem to imply any more than there is risk of a falling bull on your local street.

                        After watching a decade of burnouts, insanity, drug addiction, violence, and more in the mystical community, I'd beg to differ.


    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
      by Jennifer on Monday July 09, @08:18PM
      First off, my parents don't know I am wiccan. They probably wouldn't
      > care. They would think I am joking. And I am not satanic. And about
      > Thelema, I am interested in it so don't assume otherwise. I really
      > didn't know about it until getting a reply back from a nice guy who said
      > that that was what he was. I would love to know more on Thelema but so
      > far no one has told me about it, so yes I am interested. And I do know
      > about the perverted little losers out there. Yes I said i was 16 but
      > don't treat me like I'm five. I have been through alot more than the
      > average teenager has. But I'm not saying that other people don't have
      > problems to because I know there are people worse off than me. But I
      > consider myself mature for my age so please treat me a little more maturly.
      > And I am not closed minded about Christians. Alot of my friends are
      > Christians, but they are bad examples. I do know that there are good real
      > Christians and I know all this but still the majority of Christians whee
      > I live are not true Christians but they play themselves out like they
      > are. The whole "holier than thou" routine is what makes me sick. And of
      > course wars started by religion really makes nauseous. But I am not an
      > angry teen who is rebelling against the church. Half the time I just try
      > to stay out of all conversations on religion because I know I'll get
      > heated. I am an ordinary teen to most adults. But I just found this
      > website and saw they had things on witchraft and religion and so on so I
      > figured I would vent what I am feeling. But if this is an adult website
      > I guess I should not be wasting my time.


      • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
        by Anathema Maranatha on Monday July 09, @08:50PM
        First off, my parents don't know I am wiccan. They probably wouldn't care. They would think I am joking. And I am not satanic.

        I know.

        And about Thelema, I am interested in it so don't assume otherwise.

        I make no assumptions. My comments were based on your post and the questions you were asking in it. You were asking about witchcraft and teens. You didn't once mention Thelema and your post had nothing to do with it, sooo....?

        I really didn't know about it until getting a reply back from a nice guy who said that that was what he was. I would love to know more on Thelema but so far no one has told me about it, so yes I am interested.

        This is a good starting point on the web:
        http://members.home.net/thelema/


        Yes I said i was 16 but don't treat me like I'm five. I have been through alot more than the average teenager has. But I'm not saying that other people don't have problems to because I know there are people worse off than me. But I consider myself mature for my age so please treat me a little more maturly.

        I don't think that anyone here has as of yet treated you like you are five. In my posts I addressed you directly and offered you assitance with what you were asking about. I would have said the same stuff to someone who was older than you, although I would not have suggested a book specifically for teens. But you are a teen (or someone pretending to be one), so accept it and get over it... no one said there was anything wrong with being 16, but you announced it as your introduction, which is why I wrote to you about things relating to being a teen witch. You and the previous person who felt like puking are reading too far into it. You are assuming you are being insulted and talked down to when you really are not. For me to tone down my response or leave something out in order to not offend you or to ignore you as being a dumb kid would be to insult your sensibilities and maturity level, therefore I choose to address you as I would any other adult and felt that I gave you some damn good advice. Take it or leave it, it's all the same to me.


        • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
          by the Reverend Rob on Monday July 09, @09:03PM
          I don't think that anyone here has as of yet treated you like you are five.

          Now I think we probably have, but well, the poster is acting like a five year old.

          For me to tone down my response or leave something out in order to not offend you or to ignore you as being a dumb kid would be to insult your sensibilities and maturity level, therefore I choose to address you as I would any other adult and felt that I gave you some damn good advice.

          You gave better advice than deserved, but well, pearls before swine and all that.


          • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
            by Jennifer on Tuesday July 10, @03:34PM
            Yes I guess "me" was right huh? How dare you say I don't deserve the advice. I only pray that I don't meet anymore Christians like you because you are exactly what I don't like.


          • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
            by Jennifer on Tuesday July 10, @03:36PM
            To continue my last message, so far she has treated me very respectfully and she is telling it how it is, you are the only one who is being disrespectful.


        • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
          by Jennifer on Tuesday July 10, @03:32PM
          I know you are giving me good advice. I thank you for the links you gave me. It wasn't really you I was directing my comments towards. Again thank you for your advice and I do know that I am 16 and I do accept that because if I didn't I would be shit out of luck. Again thanks


    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by matt vaughn on Monday July 09, @06:22PM
    93 jennifer,

    you might find the essay "the true history of wicca" by Bishop T allen greenfield to be of
    interest.

    http://www.mindspring.com/~hellfire/wicca/

    since you are a wiccan and, im assuming, somewhat
    familiar with crowley since you have posted on
    beastbay.com

    according to greenfield, the birth of modern
    day 'wicca' can be traced to aleister crowley.

    i havent read much wiccan material but one book
    i read sited many thelemic works in its
    bibliography.

    good luck to you on your path

    93 93/93

    matt

    http://mattvaughn.topcities.com

    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
      by Jennifer on Monday July 09, @08:24PM
      Thank you matt for your suggestion I certainly will read that essay thanks.


      • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
        by Tim Maroney on Monday July 09, @08:42PM
        I really wouldn't bother. That essay is full of misinformation about the relationship between Gardner and Crowley, and concludes with a bizarre claim that the gods have made Greenfield the king of the witches.

        The continued posting of this anti-witchcraft essay by a prominent member of a major Thelemic group is an ongoing source of strained relations between that group and the Neo-Pagan movement.

        Tim


    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
      by Frederico Munoz on Saturday August 04, @09:10PM
      Agape,

      >you might find the essay "the true history of >wicca" by Bishop T allen greenfield to be of
      >interest.
      >http://www.mindspring.com/~hellfire/wicca/



      I don't mean to sound rude (that really isn't my intention), but I don't think that particular text will help Jennifer... I have red it and I even have a critic of it somewhere in here... it's the kind of text that is probably frowned upon by a large part of the Wiccan comunity, and one that is best red after having solid bases in Wicca or Thelema. Let's put it this way: while I might find some merit in some sentences in it, as a whole the message it tries to give is the same old "Crowley wrote the Gardnerian BOS", especially if red by someone who hasn't yet tumbled upon this kind of details.


      >since you are a wiccan and, im assuming, somewhat
      >familiar with crowley since you have posted on
      >beastbay.com



      Actually, and given the current trend in Wicca, I would think that about 25% of ppl that call themselves wiccans know Crowley, and of this 20% only know that they don't like him for some reason unknown. It's sad and rather ironic, but that's a whole different rant...


      >according to greenfield, the birth of modern
      >day 'wicca' can be traced to aleister crowley.


      Put things like that and I'll agree with you... the birth of Gardnerian Wicca can be traced to Crowley insofar as Gardner incorporated a large ammount of Crowley's work in Wicca, and so much for the better, really. What Greenfield says is that Wicca is a sort of 'outer circle' or 'popular' version of the OTO, and was made with that in mind; that's totally different.



      Having said all this, and being myself a Wiccan, I would indeed suggest to Jennifer to *read* about Wicca (I tend to Doreen Valiente's 'Witchcraft for Tomorrow' as an introductory guide to Wicca with some simple and nicely designed rituals - and done by a Priestess of Gardner himself, or even the Farrar's set of books to give a more deep explanation of the Sabbats) and, more importantly, to *practice* the Craft.. that is to say, to practice Magick. It's very nice to have ppl around, but it's sometimes very useful, even alone, to start practicing... believe me, as you all know, reading and doing is totally different.

      I would stay a bit away from the, er, 'fluff bunny' books that only seem to talk about trees and how everything is beautiful, etc. While some of them can be good reading, they will fail to convey important parts of what Wicca is (this is all IMHO, I'm known to be sectarian :) ).

      Having said all this Jennifer, pick some links about Thelema and explore that also, only good can come from it, even if you are a Wiccan. While not as Rev. Greenfiels states, Wicca and Thelema do share some important things, and most Crowley's books, perhaps at a latter stage, will prove invaluable.

      Sorry for the long rant,

      Best Regards,

      Merry Part, 93 93/93,

      Frederico Munoz


    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by Christopher on Tuesday July 10, @06:47AM
    I feel your interests are whole-hearted and sincere. Don't fret that the more common religious practices don't appeal to you.I feel that your opinions in this matter come from personel experience ant not loose generalizations. I suggest you become familiar with wiccan and other escoteric arts as much as possible, read read read. Learn some basic meditations and rituals, and pay no mind to judgements cast upon you. A good start could be I. Regardie's "The Middle Pillar" to become familiar with some basics. This book can be found on many on-line bookstores.

    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by Fra THA;M on Tuesday July 10, @02:51PM
    Do What Thou Wilt Is The Whole Of The Law.

    Perusing through some Thelemic texts, and beginning to put into practice some of the disciplines found therein could be a practical first step in resolving your issues with 'God'. The wealth of 'apocalyptic' symbols and archetypes does wonders for liberating the individual from dualistic notions of deism, which so often seem to burden one with shame, guilt and doubt. Let "armageddon" be a battle fought within the hearts of just men and women, and the 'kingdom of God' be a state of individual liberty. God has no plan, but We as autonomous individuals have the Work of our Wills, which floods us with greater purpose.

    Love Is The Law, Love Under Will.

    Hekas!
    by Micha deBarca on Wednesday July 11, @03:01AM
    No. Tho' I myself juggled with Crowley's rites and also did the sex-magic bit & practised Liber vel Jugorum as a teen, I would not advise such as it can be very taxing. To say the least.
    Yeah sure, why not, IF you can stand, or think you can stand, the pressure?

    Because you have to realise life in all its aspects, and not bet it all on one card (the spiritual). So instead of 'coming on strong',
    start out with the elements and check out a work
    like 'Liber Null & Psychonaut' by Lewis Caroll.
    Tho' he be from the 'Chaos Division', with methods like Sigilisation (derived from A.O. Spare) one can test ones abilities & power this way.

    Just my 2 cts, ze Javelin_

    P.S.: Different means, different approaches,
    all as it should be.
    But being the 16 yo lady you are,
    why not go with the the simply elegant?

    • Re: Hekas!
      by Kaladevi on Wednesday July 11, @08:03AM
      er... surely, you mean Peter Carroll.


    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by Kaladevi on Wednesday July 11, @09:08AM
    Hello Jennifer,

    you wrote:

    >I know I have a "sixth sense," but I cannot
    >develop as I would like to. I would love to find >someone who can enlighten me on how to develop my >skills.

    I know a number of excellent instructors in the SF east bay area if that's where you live. But, if your email address is any indicator, I'd suspect you're a Georgia peach. I know no one there.

    If you have some $$, I might suggest the following book which has exercises for developing the skills you seek to develop:

    _Dharana Darshan: A Panoramic View of the Yogic, Tantric and Upanishadic Practices of Concentration and Visualization_ by Paramahamsa Niranjanananda, director of the Bihar School of Yoga in India. It may be available from Fields Bookstore in SF, but is definitely available via mail order from Nataraj Books at 7073 Brookfield Plaza in Springfield, VA 22150. Their phone number is 703.455.4996.

    Dorothy Clutterbuck, who initiated Gerald Gardner into witchcraft, grew up in an ashram in India. So, perhaps she knew and taught these techniques?

    Outside of witchcraft, _Modern Magick_ by Donald Michael Kraig ain't half bad for learning basic techniques of ceremonial magick for developing the skills you want to develop. If you've got a Barnes & Noble bookstore near you, they carry the book... well, in California they carry it. Perhaps not in the bible belt?

    If you're of a mind to attempt to figure out what Thelema is about... I suggest you read _He_ by Robert Johnson and _The Mystical Way and the Arthurian Quest_ by Derek Bryce. Then, go to
    http://www.oto-usa.org/oto/thelema.html and there read the introduction to thelema, etc.

    If, as a result of reading that intro, you feel the desire to join, I suggest that you first complete the elemental work and undergo two degrees of initiation within a British trad coven of witches or the elemental degrees of the Golden Dawn.

    Best of luck.

    Love,

    Kaladevi

    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by Jana Rutkowski on Wednesday July 11, @10:44PM
    Hi, Jennifer! I see that you have received lots of advice (some I agree with, some not) and I hope you found it food for thought.

    A suggestion (and only a suggestion!) I have is that you might focus a bit on what you find troubling about mainstream religion -- what you refer to as Christianity. As you progress on your path as a witch, or pagan, or whatever you eventually find is right for you, you will discover that some problems/shortcomings aren't restricted to believers of just one religion. The things you mentioned in your first post -- such as bigotry and mindless acceptance of superstitious beliefs -- aren't confined to believing Christians. These are human failings and, what is worse, we all share them to some degree.

    Most people think that the concept of 'religion' has always been exclusively related to spiritual beliefs. Actually the word 'religion' refers to a reinforcement of a group of traditions within a tribe (a binding together again, literally). These traditions of the tribe included spiritual beliefs and practices, as well as rules for making war, marriage customs, myths and legends, and much more. Our modern concept of 'religion' came into being when the Middle East, Europe, and then the rest of the planet contacted people whose spiritual beliefs included converting non-believers. Perhaps you aren't seeking a religion exactly, but yourself?

    I suggest you learn as much as you can about not just witchcraft, paganism and other alternative paths but also about mainstream religions, like Christianity. Not modern guides for contemporary believers, but History and Philosophy. And remember to read always opposing points of view. Find out what happens when groups with opposing spiritual views encounter each other, learn about the process of being converted (don't be converted!), investigate how and why religion has been the source of so much of man's inhumanity to man while promising to make us one with the goodess of Deity.

    Finally, one very important point which is sure to make one unpopular. Not everyone is capable of feeling the yearnings you now experience. I know that is very undemocratic of me, but what you are going through now isn't simply a matter of a teen growing up. Becoming aware of yourself as special and individual (and, dare I say, potentially powerful) may prove disturbing to others when you share with them as you have with us.

    So, do not fear, ask questions, and don't feel the need to bare your soul to justify yourself to the less self-aware beings around you. Don't dwell on folks who have other beliefs as 'the enemy'. The path you have chosen isn't the easiest one, but it can be infinitely rewarding. Best wishes!

    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by John Fenwick on Friday July 13, @09:48AM
    The good Reverend wrote:

    "Then again, some of us don't have a problem with Satan, or Thelema, or paganism, and actively work with the ideas and practices involved in traditions that quite frankly I won't discuss for ethical reasons with an admitted minor."

    This is one of the most narrow minded, shortsighted comments that I have ever seen you pen, Rob. I fail to see why her age should be a factor in discussing a topic with her. That's ridiculous. It's not like she asked for personal instructions in Tantra or something. Utter rubbish.

    Many Thelemites share a dislike and contempt for Christianity. Rob's comments are his own and should not be construed as a definitive statement on Thelema.

    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
      by the Reverend Rob on Friday July 13, @06:21PM
      This is one of the most narrow minded, shortsighted comments that I have ever seen you pen, Rob.

      Must be an achievement then; I'll have to mark it in my diary.

      I fail to see why her age should be a factor in discussing a topic with her. That's ridiculous. It's not like she asked for personal instructions in Tantra or something. Utter rubbish.

      The age is a substantial factor, since I don't believe in having to avoid certain aspects of Thelema in discussion, and would rather simply be honest in my own ethical concerns there than present a half-picture.

      Many Thelemites share a dislike and contempt for Christianity.

      And that is ultimately what I consider to be the Achilles Heel of Thelema as practiced today.

      Rob's comments are his own and should not be construed as a definitive statement on Thelema.

      Apply that to anyone, and you're on your way.


    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by Osculam Infernum on Friday July 13, @03:29PM
    Hey little girl,

    You should profane the host,
    trample on the cross,
    Become a consecrated Priest(ess) and perform the Black Mass,
    Engage in abominable perversions with the Devil, your fellow witches, and all manner of animate and inanimate objects,
    Consume all manner of psychoactive toxins,
    Revile and despise your parents and authority figures,
    And say the Lords Prayer backwards.

    • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
      by Jennifer Webb on Wednesday November 28, @07:27AM
      I am a Christian. Not because I was raised to be. I choose to be. Jennifer seems like a very intelligent girl. I am in college so I still get put down for being young too. The one thing that has become very true for me is that people will let us down. Like Jennifer said, we are fallible people. I know, it takes faith to believe that God inspired the people that wrote the Bible. It takes faith in something we can't see. I see God every day though. I see HIm in people's lives. I see Him as I watch people and marvel at how wonderfully He created us all. I see Him in the sunset and the mountains, the song the bird sings and the fall leaves. He loves us all, yet He is just. I believe that Jsus taught us to love, not push away. Jennifer, I do not condemn you. That's not my place, but I do not agree. Part of the plan for our lives is pain. Pain can be a great blessing. It has been in my life. It has shown me more of what Jesus went through on the Cross when He died for us all. Well, I have to go. Thank you for your time.


      • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
        by Andy on Tuesday December 11, @05:50AM
        I love Jesus. Don't get offended when we say that because Wiccan's always say "I love the Mother Goddess" It's the same thing. And you can put a whole post slamming christianity about slamming you, a bit hypocritical? Hmm?

        I've tried Wicca in many forms, I've tried Christianity. Christianity is solid where Wicca isnt. I wasn't converted by my parents, they aren't even Christians.

        I have many friends who are Wiccan, and I do not by any means think less of them for it. But I will NEVER EVER say it is right, because quiet frankly it isn't. I'm sure your arguement against me now is that I'm being "narrow-minded"

        But I'm not! I'm following what Jesus Christ said. That he is the way the truth and the light. Why do I trust in a God I have no proof for?

        I have plenty of proof. Before I became a christian I was depressive, suicidal, and commiting almost every sexual act. After I became a Christian all those desires went away. There is still temptation but it's completely gone. Removed from me.

        So you guys can't use the arguement I've never tried Wicca because I thouroughly had for about a year. And it just doesn't work!


        • Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
          by Xnoubis on Tuesday December 11, @10:07AM
          I ignored Jennifer Webb's posting above, mostly because this is an old article and I don't expect it to get much more traffic. But since I'm the moderator, I receive a copy of every message that gets posted, and now I see that there's a second Christian advocacy post.

          If you get something out of Christianity, I'm happy for you. But I don't post messages praising and worshipping "the Scarlet Woman and the Beast whereon she rideth" on Christian forums, although that is the form of religious devotion that works for me. I would think that rude, and I think you're being rude as well.

          The Jennifer who posted the original article could have chosen to ask her question at a Christian or even a non-denominational site, but she didn't. She came to an explicitly Thelemic one. The participants in this community are generally not Christian; most of them find Christianity distasteful. I do not, but I find Christian proselytizing in a non-Christian context profoundly distasteful.

          For what it's worth, I spent three years as a Christian lay deacon after many years of being an occultist. I got some worthwhile things out of it, and have no regrets. But ultimately, it was every bit as limited as I thought it would be, even at my most jaundiced. I returned my focus to the occult, and have been richly rewarded by its depth and clarity.

          Of course, this is only true for my own experience. Similarly, your assertions about the relative value of Wicca and Christianity are true only for your experience. You can state that your way is "the" truth, but you can't speak for anyone else, any more than I can. And if you can't see that, you are narrow-minded, even if you say you aren't.


    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by S.J.B the Great Leprechaun and Grey Shadow Walker on Wednesday February 13, @06:15PM
    I have watched the responses with great interest and have prefered to remain silent until now. The responses of Rev. Rob were unfair. I have gotten into trouble a number of times for my viewpoints on the general oppression of teenagers in life and have even been accused of wanting corrupt said teenagers (an worse) so I tend to be cautious about my responses.

    I identify with your problems and a lot of the anger. I am a South African and I was a teenager during the 80's at the height of repression (which was not a healthy time for a Bi-Sexual male interested in the Occult and "Pagan" religions). Even now in the new improved South Africa, Christianity, Islam, Judeism and Hindism are effectively the only really respected religions and laws have yet to be passed recognising permanently marriages other than Christian or those conducted within a Court of law.

    There is however one thing you will begin to realise as you become more involved in the online Occult and Pagan community and that the bigotry in Christianity is not limited to Christianity. My falling out with Wicca, which I was on the verge of joining, was over not only my viewpoints but also because of an increasing bigotry within some sections of Wicca. This bigotry can in fact be seen in the rabid responses to questions about anything from Crowley to challenging "Fluffy" concepts and in the editorials of some Pagan and Wiccan sites.

    I am afraid that the one response was right. It would be better for you to remain solitary until you can be absolutely sure that you can stand up to the harrassment even though it is most probably the loneliest way of life. There are plenty of people out there who want to use the young seeker to boost their status as "gurus" not to mention their egos. I was in my mid twenties when I started to leave the solitary path that I was on and contact other Pagans and to be honest I was not ready for the abuse that I would face from some Wiccans and Pagans. 3 years later I am in alot of ways drained by that harrassment and the past year has been a hell hole.

    Be very wary of anyone who claims to know everything. Read as many diverse points as possible. And most importantly don't be afraid to express your opinion no matter how abusive people get. Your age is (despite the beliefs of some) NOT a reason to discount your viewpoints and opinions. They may change but that change should be yours not anothers. Or they might stay the same and that is your right too. Don't lose your independence. My personal opinion would be to take sites like Witch's Voice with less seriousness than some do. Sure visit those sites and don't discount what is said on those sites but realise that they do not portray Wicca, Paganism and the Occult in all the ways that it is but according the views of the creators of those sites.

    As for improving your skills the best thing I can say is Medititation (That helps me a lot of has been a great aid for me over the last year) and keep on practicing. But to be honest my distractions towards the "fluffy" of the last few years have lead me back to square one and I am re-learning a lot. Your skills will grow naturally as you grow older and as you practice more.

    Hope that helps a bit.

    S. John Browne

    Re: Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by haiku of the north and south on Thursday March 21, @02:30PM
    To: JENNIFER- i see that you said-
    "I often get critized or interrogated -- mostly by Christians" just becouse alot of christians dont understand, dont block out the whole religon. Alot of belevers in the craft believe in GOD and goddesses and believe alot of christins beliefs.When you talk about someone elses religon badly it dosnt make them look ignorant it makes you. when you write again (cause i kinda understand were your comming from- but can not empathise) look at what your saying. When you talk badly about god you are really critisising your own religon cause "witchcraft" is a bases off christianity if you really look at it.Dont start yelling and chewing out the reverened when he is just telling you what he thinks; it just proves my point about being ignorant. I think you need to study more about the religion you call "withcraft" and actually see what your doing you are being niaeve about this and making your self look bad. Your talking about stuff that you dont know about and thats what the reverend was pointing out. i agree with the reverend on most points and i am the same craft as you; i sense that you ae confused and can not take constructive critasizim.Whyare you friend with these people if they are making fun and disrespect you, you know why? your doing it to them. you say they are mean about the road you have taken , when you yourself have been doing the same thing. you lucky the reverend even talk to you that long it shows that he wants to help you understand so dont bite the hand that feeds you.

    Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by Jennifer on Sunday April 21, @03:20PM

    I know many people that are devout Christians who find what I do evil. Let me assure you that I am not evil. What I do is open my mind to what is around me. I let my soul take in everything.



    I am, like most teens I know who practice witchcraft, confused. I know I have a "sixth sense," but I cannot develop as I would like to. I would love to find someone who can enlighten me on how to develop my skills.



    But I do have a lot of problems with "God." I find him, to be quite frank, repulsive and disgusting. The ways of Christians and other followers of God simply piss me off. I have delt with so many arguements on religion. I feel that the whole religion system in itself is messed up beyond redemption. People place their whole life into a book that they don't even know of as factual or not. We have been raised to believe that the Bible is true and that we should believe everything in it or we shall be punished and suffer total damnation for all eternity in Hell. Man wrote the Bible, so in it there is cause for error, because man by definition has errors. If man was infallible then he would not be man, he would be a god. So I have problems with people who put so much of themselves into the Bible when in fact it could be wrong.


    I feel that people who think homosexuality is wrong are wrong themselves. There is nothing wrong with having feelings for people of the same sex. And for all you Christians, God made them that way, so don't you dare preach to them and try to change who they are, because you will be changing God's will.



    And when people tell me that God has a plan for everyone I get very mad, because I look around and see all these people suffering and I think, is this God's almighty plan to have this person suffer like this... why? Why does God put people on this earth just to suffer? That thought pains me. I have more opinions on religion but I am sure you are tired of my opinions, and I did not mean to offend anyone, but this was my opinion. But if anyone would like to talk to me on religion, please e-mail me.




    Teen Witchcraft and Religion
    by Jennifer on Friday May 03, @10:25PM

    I know many people that are devout Christians who find what I do evil. Let me assure you that I am not evil. What I do is open my mind to what is around me. I let my soul take in everything.



    I am, like most teens I know who practice witchcraft, confused. I know I have a "sixth sense," but I cannot develop as I would like to. I would love to find someone who can enlighten me on how to develop my skills.



    But I do have a lot of problems with "God." I find him, to be quite frank, repulsive and disgusting. The ways of Christians and other followers of God simply piss me off. I have delt with so many arguements on religion. I feel that the whole religion system in itself is messed up beyond redemption. People place their whole life into a book that they don't even know of as factual or not. We have been raised to believe that the Bible is true and that we should believe everything in it or we shall be punished and suffer total damnation for all eternity in Hell. Man wrote the Bible, so in it there is cause for error, because man by definition has errors. If man was infallible then he would not be man, he would be a god. So I have problems with people who put so much of themselves into the Bible when in fact it could be wrong.


    I feel that people who think homosexuality is wrong are wrong themselves. There is nothing wrong with having feelings for people of the same sex. And for all you Christians, God made them that way, so don't you dare preach to them and try to change who they are, because you will be changing God's will.



    And when people tell me that God has a plan for everyone I get very mad, because I look around and see all these people suffering and I think, is this God's almighty plan to have this person suffer like this... why? Why does God put people on this earth just to suffer? That thought pains me. I have more opinions on religion but I am sure you are tired of my opinions, and I did not mean to offend anyone, but this was my opinion. But if anyone would like to talk to me on religion, please e-mail me.




    The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them.


        "As St. Paul says, 'Without shedding of blood there is no remission,' and who are we to argue with St. Paul?" -- Aleister Crowley
    All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments are owned by the Poster.
    [ home | search ]