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  Void for the Masses
Self Realization Posted by Xnoubis on Monday July 16, @11:05PM
from the nox-populi dept.

We've touched before on the recent convergence of brain science and mysticism. But I've just noticed that Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief, by Andrew Newberg, Eugene D'Aquili, and Vince Rause, uses the term "Absolute Unitary Being" (or AUB for short) to describe the experience of union with the infinite, a modern synonym for samadhi or shunyata considered as a neurological state. As science develops an awareness of the reality of samadhi, it may be approaching the ability to induce samadhi by technological means.

On the other hand, we have stories like this one. Slovakia is on the verge of cancelling plans to introduce yoga in grade schools, out of a fear of "Eastern philosophical systems."

So powerful tools for realization could be poised to enter the mainstream. Yet initiatives to do so can seemingly be overthrown for the flimsiest of reasons. What's needed, I think, are strategies for introducing transformative techniques into society without triggering an undue backlash.


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    Re: Void for the Masses
    by Parlertriks on Tuesday July 17, @09:09PM
    yeah like Tim Leary did for acid, ey?

    • Re: Void for the Masses
      by Xnoubis on Wednesday July 18, @08:59AM
      Pretty much. Although acid has been the catalyst for a tremendous amount of change, in spite of the carelessness (or perhaps naivete) of its advocates. We might be able to approach this from the question, "If we could manage the introduction of acid all over again, what would we do differently?"


      • Re: Void for the Masses
        by Parlertriks on Wednesday July 18, @11:30AM
        if it had become available by perscription from psychiatrusts, then maybe it would still be mainstream now (though expensive!)


        • Re: Void for the Masses
          by Xnoubis on Wednesday July 18, @11:45AM
          But it was, I think. When it was still legal in the US (and before it became such a counter-culture phenomenon), it was usually administered by a therapist in a controlled setting. But prescriptions did happen. There's a thread about that in Thomas Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49.


    Re: Void for the Masses
    by Anthony on Wednesday July 18, @01:09AM
    If.....it were possible to induce Sahmadi by means of technology - without the recipients having done the preliminary work - does anyone think that... you might as well just fry them on the electric chair?

    Re: Void for the Masses
    by Anthony on Wednesday July 18, @01:21AM
    Doing the work is its own reward and altered states shouldn't be made a goal and wallowed in, as AC says. To do so is totally detrimental.

    Most people who rolled on up for an experience of Sahmadi, provided the technology was good enough, would have themselves completely obliviated with no idea of how to get back to a relatively normal level of consciousness, and if they did, the previous state of their egos (testified by the fact that they would need technology in order to reach Sahmadi in the first place) - would seem an incommensurable distance from Sahmadi.

    The only option you would have then is some kind of post-Sahmadic re-imprinting/metapogramming experience, which would be akin to turning out drones of a particular belief system, even if it were Thelema - which it wouldn't be obviously - (it would be something utilitarian) then it would still be A Clockwork Orange.

    Bad deal all round I say.
    Put em to work instead.
    Samadhi even in its extreme heights is easy enough to accomplish when we're on the right path.

    • Re: Void for the Masses
      by Xnoubis on Wednesday July 18, @09:09AM
      It might be as you say. I suspect that the effect would be tremendously therapeutic. Possibly not much use to the esoteric practitioner, but it could make a big difference to the Man on the Street. Or Mom and Dad... hoo-boy!

      The re-imprinting issue is an interesting one. I think that the experience of LSD psychotherapy would come in handy here. When the client is coming down, they don't show him/her re-indoctrination videos. They just provide a spacious, calm, clean, and aesthetically appealing environment to get re-oriented in.


      • Re: Void for the Masses
        by Anthony on Wednesday July 18, @11:47AM
        I think it could be really cool if it were, say, combined with beforehand a lecture about the principles of Liber B Vel Magus, put into terms that the man on the street could understand, so then it wouldn't be a mere escapist "kick" - though some would use it like that, but it could then be a transformative tool, since consciousness would be fed also.

        Though I guess that would detract from the £ making potential of people wanting to repeatedly fry their brains.


    • Re: Void for the Masses
      by King Knave on Tuesday July 24, @08:57PM
      I Love that word,("Akin")



    Re: Void for the Masses
    by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Wednesday July 18, @01:24AM
    ...I was just reading something Terence Mckenna
    was saying, about the word "God" as as i was reading yet another blurb for a scientific/God
    book, i couldn't help thinking about what Terence said, that; "God" is a really anglo saxon word,
    like what an ugly word, for the ultimate reality it is attached to, it seems to me that we are a long way from coming up with a satisfactory, be all end all scientific/socio/myth/religion/phenomonen, ect. that really covers all the bases,
    cuz, in my mind "God is dead" and we are still doing a moping up action...!

    ..so the resounding question comes back, well then can we agree to call it something else?

    and also if i do not resonate with the current paradigm, of scientific enquiry/ feel good new agey books that run me around in circles, of psudo-scientific i mean i just hate the title
    of this book, "why God won't go away" and the blurb
    that goes with it, telling me about the people that still go to church, ha ah' HELLO! that's not what i want to hear, that doesn't make me feel
    hope or optamistic, sorry!...something seems off to me here, on the one hand we have a discussion of the brain physiology, and on another we have statistics that a bunch of people are still brainwashed!...but in this scientific book we are presented with this as an explanation that the brain achieves these states, and that is why so many people are still in church!?...in my gnostic/existential way of looking at things, the premise of the book is scewed, even if it is talking about scientific proof of "God"...or whatever you call IT...

    Re: Void for the Masses
    by Fra THA;M on Wednesday July 18, @11:29AM
    I hate to digress, but the example of samadhi being induced by technological means reminds me of some fascinating neuro research being conducted in my country. At one of our eastern Universities (it could be U of Toronto or Cornell, please excuse my ignorance) researchers are able to induce NDE in a laboratory setting. The tunnel of light, the voices of loved ones, all the traditional imagery associated with a western experience of dying can be recreated in healthy individuals by the mild electric stimulation of different parts of the brain. So the question I grapple with in regards to this topic and these postings is on objectivity. Does the brain induce a coherence on the outside world, or does the outside world impose coherence on the brain? Are these states strictly physiological, and the attribution of spiritual terms a convinience? Or are these physical states manifestations of some transcendant objective reality? I don't know, I always find myself flip-flopping on the issue.

    • Re: Void for the Masses
      by Xnoubis on Wednesday July 18, @01:00PM
      > Does the brain induce a coherence on the
      > outside world, or does the outside world impose
      > coherence on the brain?

      I think that this is where "codependent origination" comes in. The one thing, which includes brain and world, is coherent, so there is no imposition at all.

      It is interesting that the symptoms of NDE's appear to be so similar for so many different people. It suggests to me that there is something about ego that produces typical experiences as it gets resolved into essence. But the term "objective" can be misleading, as it usually implies a "world out there" that is independent of "me in here," whereas that whole in/out framework doesn't really correspond to reality.


      • Re: Void for the Masses
        by Fra THA;M on Wednesday July 18, @03:02PM
        "It suggests to me that there is something about ego that produces typical experiences as it gets resolved into essence."

        Current arguements regarding NDE posit that when the ego recognizes the onset of its oblivion and the abscence of a transcendant afterlife, the symbols (warm tunnel of light, family, etc) become a way for the autonomous nervous system to anathesize the mind; therefore making that brief eternity called dying a little easier. So I would tend to agree with you up to 'essence', and after if you equate essence with absolute nothingness and permanent dispersal of any esoteric sense of self.


        • Re: Void for the Masses
          by Xnoubis on Thursday July 19, @04:07PM
          > if you equate essence with absolute nothingness

          I do, but I also equate absolute nothingness with absolute presence, which might not be what you had in mind.

          > and permanent dispersal of any esoteric sense
          > of self

          Why "esoteric"? I would think you mean "any sense of self," period. I'd say "dispersal of any dualistic sense of self," but not exactly permanent, since dualistic manifestations of mind are always popping up. I think our areas of disagreement are clear enough, though...


          • Re: Void for the Masses
            by Fra THA;M on Thursday July 19, @08:26PM
            Why esoteric? Because 'I' live on in the paintings into which I've thrown myself into. Beyond that, the end of any sense of self. Ultimately the cessation of any manifestations of dualism; the eventual corruption of the flesh, and dispersal of any manifestation of mind/soul/spirit.


      • Re: Void for the Masses
        by Parlertriks on Thursday July 19, @10:09AM
        "that whole in/out framework doesn't really correspond to reality"

        mybe your reality :)


        • Re: Void for the Masses
          by Xnoubis on Thursday July 19, @04:09PM
          Yeah, before you even wrote that, I was wishing that I had said, "that whole in/out framework is merely a mental construct."


          • Re: Void for the Masses
            by Parlertriks on Friday July 20, @03:02PM
            the bit i was laughin at was "whole in/out framework", sounds dirty to me :)


    Re: Void for the Masses
    by Jon Auviere on Wednesday July 18, @11:59AM
    Have you heard the one about the bull?

    "O Babblers, Prattlers, Talkers, Locquacious Ones, Tatlers, Chewers of the Red Rag that inflameth Apis the Redeemer to fury, learn first what is Work! and THE GREAT WORK is not so far beyond!"

    c. 52, L 333.

    If you live in one of those cuntries where Jewish Freemasonry is prominent and True Mansonry is rotting in the sewers, then ! expect the worst devolution that one trapped in the Abyss can ever dream up. In places like Portugal where they have ceased arresting people for drug use or in that place which they call Red Light Paradise this evil wickedness is frozen in a pillar of stone-tears. On the contrary, Anyone living in America per say whether he be occultist or no is contaminated with a disease, lest he be in the first or in the advanced stages, the former who are merely in waiting for a leader to guide them, the latter who are store-houses of destruction, and the middle who are constantly being dispersed by the devil Choronzon. In the mainstream, you say, the people would become more intensly that of the tools of the devil.

    Just look at this book which you cite; he compares spiritual states with a magnet placed over the head of the guinea. While this might look good on paper, there are so many absurdities within the research that I could not explore them in so little space provided here. It would further be a waste of time to do so. The mainstream needs to be introduced only to the word "Obey."

    • Re: Void for the Masses
      by Aleph on Wednesday July 18, @02:19PM
      I think "freedom" would be a better word. Who do you obey?


    • Re: Void for the Masses
      by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Wednesday July 18, @05:37PM
      ya the quote was written for, your type!

      a real mouth full for you, now obey!!!

      and forever hold your piece!


      zing zing zing
      XXX love is the Law, love under will

      and it still is...!!!


      • Re: Void for the Masses
        by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Wednesday July 18, @05:53PM
        ..Aleph, i was refering to the dude above you!

        your response was tres cool!

        i like to chide Jon!

        its fun..tee hee


    • Re: Void for the Masses
      by Parlertriks on Wednesday July 18, @05:51PM
      "True Mansonry"

      izzat like Charley?


    • Re: Void for the Masses
      by Miguel on Wednesday July 18, @06:45PM
      look close -- it is a nazi fatty! fatty eats all the jews. BLARG! run jews or nazi fatty will make you a lunch!

      "i do not eat the jews. i love them" says commandant porkbeest

      "love them -- FOR A LUNCH! you do put butter on them for horror."

      "well they are tasty and they hurt freemasonry so yes, i eat them. i eat them all. fart! sorry for the fart."


      • Re: Void for the Masses
        by Jon Auviere on Wednesday July 18, @07:41PM
        Poor little children, can't handle a simple concept as a "word". Or am I the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler? you can't say 'jew' nowadays, it sup'ost t' be xtian. and racism is for olimpiads. But the English to the devil! back ye dirty jew! back i say! hell!


        • Re: Void for the Masses
          by Fra THA;M on Wednesday July 18, @08:23PM
          For an individual who enjoys being a literalist Crowleyite, you generally seem uninformed regarding the Beast's caustic criticisms regarding racism. Your rant on morality gives me pause to wonder whether you have ever 'thought' about what Thelema represents? But...if you are correct about ZOG, i'll be the first to join up with you at a backwoods, inbred militia; i'll murder my intellect with mooshine and antifreeze, and you and I, Jon, we can repack spent ammunition cartridges, scratch ourselves, and wait out the apocalypse. When you hear it from someone else, it does sound crazy, eh?


          • Re: Void for the Masses
            by Lord Hitler on Thursday July 19, @07:29AM
            Fra Tha;m - I will excuse your constant babbling for the simple reason that you have not studied to any extent the politics of the world and its many problems, nor have you any real insight regarding philosophy, psychology, or simple manners of conduct. It is for these reasons that I require you to climb the ladder a few rungs (maybe more!) before I even so much as could possibly and intelligently converse thees issues with you without you sounding like back role joker in a cheap play. I was wrong to think that I could use small words and concepts that the likes of you would understand. But then I have no intention of converting to your layman's version of what you call Crowleyite semantics.


            • Re: Void for the Masses
              by Parlertriks on Thursday July 19, @10:15AM
              "I have no intention of converting"

              but arguing is another thing, ey?


            • Re: Void for the Masses
              by Fra THA;M on Thursday July 19, @10:48AM
              The response I was able to intentionally provoke from you invalidates the necessity of a response. He who finds recourse in attack shows an inabilty to adequately debate. Your sensitivity to criticism could , perhaps, be construed as evidence that you have created an ideology whose infrastructure is so poorly constructed that when it is threatened you lash out. But I won't judge you, Brother.


              • Re: Void for the Masses
                by Lord Hitler on Thursday July 19, @11:33AM
                [In the Shells]



              • Re: Void for the Masses
                by Aleph on Thursday July 19, @02:36PM
                93,

                I must say, I've never seen "Jon" either intelligently formulate a concise and understandable point of view, or be able to hold his own in rational argument backing up his statements in any kind of reasonable manner. He seems to think that insulting the opposing party is sufficient to prove his dubious and inadequately stated points.

                93/696
                Aleph


        • Re: Void for the Masses
          by jazzcat goodshiplollypop on Wednesday July 18, @10:25PM
          nothing child like about yu jon!

          me thinks that is a real problem for yu, sad really!



     
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