Pope Apologizes; What Next?

Social Justice

Posted by <Xnoubis> on Tuesday March 14, @08:33AM
from the papal-bull dept.

Pope John Paul II made a sweeping but vague apology this past Sunday for the sins of the Roman Catholic church over the past 2000 years. He didn't offer any specific suggestions for what the church might do to prevent such misdeeds in the future, though. What could the pope do to help bring Catholicism into the New Aeon? Any suggestions?


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Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by <Diancecht> on Tuesday March 14, @09:18AM

Notice he didn't apologize for the Christian wars against Magic. How many physical and spiritual deaths amounted from that?!

I don't think apologies will do much of anything, much less spread some worn out religion. The pope is losing followers because people are tired of hearing old fairy tales. The world needs less family style outfits, the christian survives by calling all of its followers “children” and then having them worry themselves on the invisibles so in turn to keep them searching for “fatherly figures”. The psychiatrist calls this situation a chaotic and unrealistic one, usually resulting in some sort of psychotic behavior.

Man works best when he scrubs off the barnicles the slave bracelettes and such to which he tastes freedom and is forced to challenge himself. He cannot do this unless he shakes off the family.


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by Frater M.S. on Tuesday March 14, @09:38AM

I must admit that I was highly amused at the appology of the pope. I couldn't suppress a cynical chuckle at the thought of the high pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church giving a vague sweeping appology for centuries of oppression. I for one am glad that the church is now at least publicly acknowledging that there has been wrongdoing in the past. It also presents the point that not even the church hierarchy is perfect, we're all human. And by that logic, since we're all human we don't need a priest to intercede between us and our god *smirk*

Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by <anonymous> on Thursday March 16, @12:44AM

I am Two! Gladness overcame me, after the cynical “What good could a LETTER truly do for centuries of pain?” question, realizing that these are indications of the possibility of the Aeon we are in. And the Catholics in it right beside everyone else!

Of course, one could always ask for more…

As did the Jews.

After the 'rough draft' was written, they claimed it was not enough. The Pope then included a Formal Apology for the specific wrong doings of a few dead Pious Men(Pious the 8th, etc.).

We shall see how much of an effect this change in the Catholic Church, and the Pope, will have on the further religious persecutions we are inevitably going to face.

Furthermore, I refuse to believe that it is the individualistic nature of any single man to physically or mentally oppress the man next to him for practicing his own Faith in God.

Call me wistfull and optimistic.

Maybe you are right, and I put too much hope in the growth of the God-like aspect in us all.


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?]]
by Michael Sanborn on Tuesday March 14, @01:33PM

Oh, all the possibilities!

1. Embrace a congregationalist polity.

2. Reduce the papacy to simply being the bishopric of Rome.

3. Admit that the Orthodox churches were correct in the matter of the epiclesis.

4. Recognize Matthew Fox's “Creation Spirituality” as a vision appropriate for the future of Christianity, in exchange for the rest of the world acknowledging that Matthew Fox himself is a bit of a ninny.

5. Offer special Vatican City trading status to the first nation that broadcasts the “Powerpuff Girls” in Latin.


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by Zen Wa Foo on Sunday March 19, @04:22AM

epiclesis?


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by Michael Sanborn on Sunday March 19, @01:48PM

Thank you bringing that point up, since your question forced me to do some research. What I was thinking of wasn't the really the epiclesis (praying for the descent of the Holy Spirit to transubstantiate the elements of the eucharist) at all, but a related issue that divided the Eastern and Western churches, referred to as the “Filioque.”

The dispute involved the words about the Holy Spirit in the Nicene Constantinopolitan Creed. Originally the Creed ran: 'I believe . . . in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and together glorified.' This, the original form, is recited unchanged by the east to this day. But the west inserted an extra phrase 'and from the Son' (in Latin, Filioque), so that the Creed now reads 'who proceeds from the Father and the Son'. […] It was writers at Charlemagne's court who first made the Filioque into an issue of controversy, accusing the Greeks of heresy because they recited the Creed in its original form. […] It was not until 860 that the Greeks paid much attention to the Filioque, but once they did so, their reaction was sharply critical. The Orthodox objected (and still object) to this addition to the Creed, for two reasons. First, the Creed is the common possession of the whole Church, and if any change is to be made in it, this can only be done by an Ecumenical Council. The west, in altering the Creed without consulting the east, is guilty (as Khomiakov put it) of moral fratricide, of a sin against the unity of the Church. In the second place, most Orthodox believe the Filioque to be theologically untrue. They hold that the Spirit proceeds from the Father alone, and consider it a heresy to say that He proceeds from the Son as well.—The Great Schism

Sorry for the error. What I was trying to say was, if you're going to take on the Christian paradigm at all, the Orthodox side of that dispute makes a lot more sense to me.


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?]]
by <Phygelus> on Saturday March 18, @04:44PM

It should be noted that Pope John Paul II did not personally apologize for the crimes of the past, nor did he acknowledge guilt on the part of the church as a whole for those crimes. It's a fine but crucial point: he specifically asked for forgiveness for those who committed sins acting in the name of the church, not for the church itself.

If he had done otherwise, as many seem to have misunderstood, he would be guilty of the heresy that the church and the papacy are not infallible.


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?\\
by <“anonymous”> on Saturday March 18, @07:24PM

Noted.

I suppose I forgot to question every bit of info that is fed to me by NPR! and other news casters that impart the same story.

I was under the impression that he had apologized, or maybe just noted, the persecutions of the Jews by Pious the 8th and the 12th…

Then again i was not there to hear his speech.

Were you?

I am not trying to insult you I merely curious and would like to investigate the real story (as opposed to the fake one) that is, actually, the story you heard or read or saw…

I am newly bent to the idea, again, of questioning eveything!

Thank You!


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by Zen Wa Foo on Sunday March 19, @04:16AM

I suppose I'm in the Minority on this, but what I saw was: a very old, very sick man sitting in a chair and apologizing for the misdeeds of himself and all his cohorts and predecessors. It surprises me that everyone is laughing at this.

And for those of you who think that letters of apology and such “don't make much of a difference,” doesn't anyone around here believe in the power of what we call “Magick”?

Think about it: That man sits in That chair wearing That robe with That hat on his head. He calls upon/prays to/invokes/cajoles/pleads with THAT GOD,and says: “We're sorry. Please forgive us for all the times Our People did horrible things to Any Other People. Especially if we did it in Your Name. That was the worst of all.”

Please remember that in The Pope's moral Universe, the law of Karma is absolute: Eveyone will pay for their transgressions, Eternally. No re-incarnation, no second chance. The only, tiny loop-hole here is if one makes a True Act of Contrition . . . and that means to really know that you did wrong, and to really experience the suffering you have caused as if it were your own suffering (which, in fact, it is, as all Prophets, including the Prophet of Thelema are always trying to get us to understand), and then to . . . to just sort of collapse into a jelly-like heap of remorse. And this, it appears to me is exactly what he did.

It is asserted, in the Xtian Universe, that, if your Heap of Remorse is truly Jelly-like enough, that OCCASIONALLY, the Xtian God will take pity on one's abject invertebrativity, and through His Inscrutable Grace, let you off the hook. But before you get to that point – if you get to that point – doesn't it look alot like being “Nothing but a little pile of dust” in the City of the Pyramids?

But be that as it may. The Pope has obviously seen something or felt something or had something happen to him to trigger this. Pope has some sort of True Vision of the crimes against humanity, freedom, and good taste committed both by himself and All Catholics Everywhere, Throughout Space and Time . . . Pope performs a True Act of Contrition both for himself and all his Fellow Catholics Of Old Time Now Essentially Present (sorry, couldn't resist) . . . Do you think the Pope knows something we don't? Is there perhaps . . .some Time Limit on this Act of Contrition of which we are unaware?

Could it be that the Supreme Pontiff of the Roman Communion has succumbed to MILLENIAL FEVER? Shouldn't THAT have been the Headline? “Pope Apologizes! End Times Near!”

And may I close with the Words of the Man from Hippo:

LOVE GOD, AND DO WHAT THOU WILT.

Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by Michael Sanborn on Sunday March 19, @01:08PM

to really experience the suffering you have
caused as if it were your own suffering (which,
in fact, it is, as all Prophets, including the
Prophet of Thelema are always trying to get us
to understand)

It seems to me that this point is very rarely brought up in Thelemic circles, and I'm really encouraged to see it here. The alternative interpretation of Thelema can easily lead to, say, Scientology: a brainchild of someone who read the Book of the Law, and chose to emphasize “The slaves shall serve.”


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by Geoffrey Baldwin on Sunday March 19, @10:36PM

93!

Well… it would take admitting that the entire construct called “Original Sin” is a Lie, which it will never do, because it would be bad for business. Dom Luigi Sturzo, one time supporter of Mussolini and co-founder of the Christian Democratic Party (after WWII) wrote a book entitled “Church and State” which gives the Church's alleged justifications for nearly 2,000 years of utter treachery. Il Papa will not likely apologize for these things, nor will he apologize for the Holocaust, especially since he was helping assemble the Zyklon B for IG Farben. I wrote a tribute to Jacobus Burgundus Molensis posted on my own site at http://www.geocities.com/antiqillum/JBM01.htm – Quoting at large here would take more space. It can be summed up thus: It's like the chain of karma, one thing leads to another, and one false doctrine (among many) has led to what we see happening around us everywhere today. It is up to the rest of us to make the future (by what we are doing now)…

Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by Michael Sanborn on Monday March 20, @07:19PM

Regarding “Original Sin,” I think the antidote is best formulated by Matthew Fox in his doctrine of “Original Blessing.” Fox's Creation Spirituality is, for me, about the closest Christianity can get to Thelema and still be called Christianity. Only two reservations: 1) Fox is a monagamist, and 2) reminiscent of the way Crowley uses Christianity as a scapegoat for what he doesn't like about human history, Fox condemns the Age of Enlightenment. In both cases, I think they're throwing a very substantial baby out with the bathwater.

Still, I'd highly recommend Fox's work, except for the most recent stuff, wherein, having already thoroughly delivered his message, he seems to be trying to find an excuse for a paycheck.


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by <ecsd> on Sunday March 26, @04:02PM

The news mentioned Gays asking, how about us, and others saying, well, how about dropping your anti-abortion stances … then of course there's women as priests. I'm being silly, but after you drop that stuff, is it really the Catholic Church anymore?

I think they should just all die.
I'm telling Mr. Xnoubis here now that Nostradamus had said that the pope after the pope after this pope is supposed to be the last pope (ever) - the church will go away somehow or other. I only hope upon hope to live to see that day.

Never mind.


Re: Pope Apologizes; What Next?
by <AShub> on Monday March 27, @10:44PM

Just for the record, the parchment colored and blood tinged Inquisition number the whinge among their many weapons.