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Posted by Martin Hettland on Wednesday February 14, @03:01PM
from the you-have-a-point? dept.

[I am from Norway, hope you English speaking readers out there will forgive my (ab-)use of your language.]

I have been looking at the discussion on Thelema and Buddhism, and I wonder if the Holy Guardian Angel is supposed to be identical from incarnation to incarnation, thus making the HGA more like the permanent and individual “atman” (soul) from incarnation to incarnation in Hinduism, as opposed to Buddhism's doctrine, “anatman,” on the human soul as being nonpermanent and nonindividual.

<  |  >

 

The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them.

**Re: Anatman vs. the HGA**
by <Xnoubis> on Thursday February 15, @10:51AM

I equate Hadit with atman, myself, although AL II:4, “Yet she shall be known & I never,” could be considered a kind of Thelemic anatta. Two different paths to the same truth, I've always thought.

But about the other part of your question, if there is a Thelemic doctrine about whether the HGA spans incarnations, I'm not sure. Does Crowley write about this, anybody? I don't think that I quite agree with his line on reincarnation anyway (we're all reincarnations of one another, it seems to me), but it would be interesting to know what he thought about this.

• |Re: Anatman vs. the HGA\\
  by Shader XX on Tuesday February 20, @04:59AM
  |

  …now that i am done blasting that SECRET\\ mr arbitrary, i want to thank you Xnoubis for\\ answering my question, about anatta, because that\\ tells me something that i have been tring to understand for a long time, not that i am any closer to the BIG ANSWER, but that my question keeps getting deeper, if anatta means HADIT then in a way Thelema is the divine spark, and the nothing at the core…\\ \\ so buddha was the 'chaos' coming back to meet the spark at the center of nothingness…\\ \\ so Aiwass is another form of Buddha, which\\ is another form of Atman, for awhile there is more emphasis on the nothing at the core, but either way divine spark or nothing, it takes one to make the other, Holy guardian Angel kinda brings it\\ into perspective, in the given incarnation…\\ there is always the anatta and there is the core\\ to put them together is the chore, and the Taoists\\ knew that any rate nature would go on no matter what we did, powerful stuff to be used in the hands of the powerful, for good or ill…\\ better to find your own true will!\\ \\ even so the logos is beyond the kin of the many\\ \\ perhaps that is about to change!\\ \\

• |Re: Anatman vs. the HGA\\
  by Mordecai Shapiro on Wednesday February 21, @12:48AM
  |

  >Ok i got it!…you cannot have truth without its compliment; justice, TRUTH AND JUSTICE, how is\\ >that..?\\ \\ Let's not leave out the AMERICAN WAY. The Ubermensch would never forgive us!\\ \\

• |Re: Anatman vs. the HGA\\
  by Martin Hetland. on Thursday February 22, @06:27AM
  |

  I was thinking of what Xnobius wrote about the HGA not nessecarely being outside us.\\ And reflecting upon Crowley's definotion of love as being the union of opposites…or was that the union of deifferent aspects, it makes me think og the HGA as something we can have with us, that is, we hace the different aspects inside us, but to get in contact with the HGA we have to unite/reconciliate the differnet aspects/ the opposites within ourselves.\\ Because you can't get a cake without uniting/mixing the different aspects/ingredients of the cake.\\ This is the 2=0 formula at the individual level, i.e., it takes two…you and your HGA.. to find the Ballance/-your true will, the “zero state”at the personal level.\\ At the universial level the 2=0 is reached by you getting a ballance someting much bigger, like all the aspects of the tree of life and thus reaching beond to the “Zero” and universal equilibrum(=ballance)of Nuit.\\ \\ With regards:\\ \\ Matin Hettland.\\ \\

**Re: Anatman vs. the HGA**
by Rev. Mike Margolin on Monday February 19, @10:06AM

93,
Did Allen Bennet write anything on this subject?
93/93/93
ISN
RvMSM666

• |Re: Anatman vs. the HGA\\
  by Mordecai Shapiro on Wednesday February 21, @12:50AM\\|

  I think of God as play, the divine “lila” in Hindu terminology.\\

• |Re: Anatman vs. the HGA\\
  by Rev. Mike Margolin on Thursday February 22, @06:46PM\\|

  93,\\ It was more of a direction, than a question.\\ 93/93/93\\ ISN\\ Mikey 666\\

**Re: Anatman vs. the HGA**
by <RIKB> on Wednesday February 21, @04:19AM

The idea in Buddhism isn't that there isn't anything there to be labeled “self,” but that what we attach that label to is dynamic and constantly changing rather than static and eternal (in the sense of being outside of time and the modifications that attend time). In a sense I think the will is eternal because “momentum” on any plane can't be created or destroyed. At the same time, I think the idea of the HGA is definitely dynamic – as Crowley says many times, the primary quality of any god is “going.” In terms of metaphysics, I think Thelema is more consonant with Buddhism than with Hinduism. See particularly Buddhist treatments of “voidness” in relation to Nuit, which is barely touched upon in Hinduism.
The distinction – I feel – between Buddhism and Thelema on this score is that Buddhists seek to end this “going” while Thelema embraces it; in Buddhism, the wheel of transmigration is turned by desire, while in thelema the operative concept is will. In other words, the world views are rather similar, while the idea of what to do about the state of affairs diverges rather markedly.

93 93/93
RIKB

• |Re: Anatman vs. the HGA\\
  by Shader XX on Wednesday February 21, @06:39AM
  |

  …my magick word…u ar a lila…uaralila\\ \\ it came to me, also… anta ananta kia!\\ \\ another is, eurea…they all came to me\\ \\ in a dream…i share it!,,freely\\ \\ even if i am a bit of a fighter!\\ \\ 93 always..zeyes\\ \\

• |Re: Anatman vs. the HGA\\
  by Mordecai Shapiro on Thursday February 22, @04:41PM
  |

  How about this rewrite?\\ \\ There's no doubt that Crowley portrayed himself as more into Buddhism, at least at the time of the writing of the BOTL. Hence his later claims of horror at such passages as “Remember all ye that existence is pure joy”, etc. which is certainly “more consonant” with Hinduism than with Buddhism.\\ \\

• |Re: Thelema's HGA versus Buddhism's “nonsoul”doctrine.\\
  by Shader XX on Tuesday February 27, @05:41PM
  |

  therefore we are all clueless/clued alchemists\\ with fancy titles…and arch sounding explanations\\ because we adhear to a system that makes us important, to some fraternity…which is another way of saying, that knowledge is always passed down secretly, as in the past the Holy Roman church would torcher you for it, now that knowledge is lorded over by Caliphs and his cabal,\\ and they are the over lords, nevertheless knowledge is passed through, in various ways, sometimes cloaked in veils right before your very eyes, sometimes it happens spontainiously, the synchronicity manifests in mysterious ways, sometimes it is passed on, on some street corner\\ with a look in the eye, it has nothing to do with offical anything, the will is free must be free\\ regardless of all the trapings of official this and that, regardless of symbols and signs, it is free to transmute matter into pure energy, on one hand i respect those whom are initiates in OTO, on\\ the other hand when i start to hear that offical\\ tonality in thier voice, i have great reserve,\\ secret knowledge is passed through the ages by initiates whom incarnate, to fullfill some initiation from past lives, that may be inspite of any current official order and its cadre, so to the official know it alls, i say this, mind how you pass knowledge, and watch the arrogance level in your intent, remember a king may be concealed,\\ which is another way of saying a fool!…i hope\\ i get a few ganders up, then i know that i am going the great alchemy…high regards!!!\\ \\

• |Re: Anatman vs. the HGA\\
  by Shader XX on Monday February 26, @03:57AM
  |

  ….will creates meaning by preserving a kind of\\ antagonism between terms> BINGO!\\ \\ and with that my will thus creates through my self/notself…through the plethora of phenomena\\ through a kind of effortless effort, i come to know that which i cannot know, to merely regurgitate formula, takes away the friction of\\ this creative desire/tantra, this hedonic coincedence of opposites, that allows spontainous\\ gnosis, to see beauity in uglyness, to enjoy all\\ things of sense and rapture, everything, all contrivance is diminished, all pretence, all scripture of all so-called inspiration from on high, is ment to be read and then forgotten, “all\\ time crushed back into eternity”\\ \\ will as desire, passion, black sun of my delerium\\ \\ RIBH zyez XX93 ananta kia\\ \\

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