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  Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel

Self Realization Posted by <SororRPSTOVAL> on April 13, 2001 @ 06:43 PM
from the that's-another-satori dept.

I was reading a thread the other day right here on The Beast Bay called "Is a Redeemer Required in Thelema?" One person stated, “The HGA [Holy Guardian Angel] is the Universe.” This in turn surfaced some re-occuring questions in me.

I have seen this attitude reflected in some instances within Crowley's writings as well, suggesting that the nature of the experience is Samadhic. Although HGA is a central tenet, few people seem to want to discuss it. Most people place Knowledge and Conversation of the HGA at Tiphareth. This has always confounded me.

Does placing HGA at Tiphareth mean:

  1. The attaining of the HGA is synonymous with the consciousness that is represented with the sephira Tiphareth?

Or does it mean:

  1. Once the experience (Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, or K&C) has been ascertained that the practitioner perceives things with a conciousness more alikened to that of Tiphareth?

So that being said . . .

Is the K&C of the HGA placed at Kether? Is the K&C of the HGA placed at Tiphareth?

Is experiencing Samadhi placed at Kether? Is experiencing Samadhi placed at Tiphareth?

Like a curious newspaper reporter, I have hounded certain individuals with these questions, “Is Samadhi Knowledge and Conversation with the HGA?”

When posed this most people reply no, because the HGA speaks to us throughout our entire lifetime . . .

Samadhi perhaps isn't the HGA itself, but is it the primary “Knowledge and Conversation”?

Hopefully you intelligent and creative Beast Bay readers can throw me some wise words or maybe a direction to search in for the intended meanings that Crowley was after with the HGA concept.

<  |  >


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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them.

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by Jon Auviere on Saturday April 14, @07:41AM

You bring up an intelligent question soror, and I feel I should say first that one’s degree of initiation is often a thorn in one’s side—you will be lucky to get an answer that is beyond your grade. There are a few ways around this: (1) you can excel and hope to find out for yourself (2) sprinkle some feminine charm to extract more intel (3) stop asking questions entirely and make your own conclusions based on Crowley’s work.

Any of these would be desirable. But to start you off, read Crowley’s poem, “The Ladder”. In it, you will find there are many attributions to the higher genius. And remind yourself there are 3 planes to knowledge by which the planes are approached (Tiphareth is merely a starting point because man is self-conscious). It is wrong to say the HGA is only this, and at the source of the HGA there shall be boundlessness (hinting beyond Kether). “The Sun is but the Son”.

Also, you would do well to relate the Tree to alchemical equations found in the MS “Hermetic Arcanum”.

And by the way, don’t invest much on what your brothers sell you.

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by <Anthony> on Monday April 16, @02:17AM

Well, I will “sell” you one word of very sincere, critical advice, which has been, I confess, hammered into me by my own teachers - the word is “WORK!” and I leave now no doubt to be shot down hereafter.

  • |Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
    by Jon Auviere on Monday April 16, @06:44AM\\|

    “Do you want fries with that?”\\

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by Frater Ponderosa on Monday April 16, @09:43AM

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I believe Tiphareth is associated with the K&C HGA, and Kether with Union with the HGA, these being two completely different events. And between these is obviously Daath, another story entirely. “The Wake World,” from Konx Om Pax, may be illuminatory.

As for samadhi, there are different “kinds,” or at least ways of treating of them verbally. You might want to check out Vivekananda's Raja Yoga, in conjunction with part one of Book Four.

Love is the law, love under will.

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by Tau Aleph on Monday April 16, @10:33AM


I am pasting an e-mail I wrote quite recently which addresses this topic with added comments in [brackets]:

Subject: HGA / Daimon

I really think the phrase “Holy Guardian Angel” misleads a lot of people.

Crowley also referred to the HGA as “Daemone” or “Genius”. This would of
course relate to Socrates' Daimon. According to Plato, the daemon was the
*nous* or divine mind in every human. I have also seen this equated with
the Muse, and also with the qabalistic concept of the Neshamah.

Neshamah is derived from the verb 'nesham' meaning to breathe. It is
attributed to the upper triad of Kether, Chokmah, and Binah. This would
make sense of the fact that one “loses” ones “angel” upon the
accomplishment of “Crossing the Abyss”. Conversation implies a duality,
two entities talking. Upon the “Crossing of the Abyss”, one has
integrated/been-integrated-into Binah, the intuitive soul. The apparent
duality between ones perceived self and ones higher intuition has

[Note: the Conversation itself is represented by the path of Zain, the Twins/Lovers, between Tiphareth and Binah. Binah representing the Angel's POV, and Tiphareth representing the magician's POV. This clearly indicates that the attainment of the magician is of Tiphareth.]

Putting this together with Crowley's comments about “Pranayama and Its
Parallel in Speech, Mantrayoga” in Book Four would indicate that the
advanced practioner can achieve K&CofHGA through the use of pranayama
alone, while those who have achieved a lesser degree of concentration may
resort to the use of mantra or barbarous names. Full ceremonial ritual may
aid those who fail to acheive the necessary concentration with mantra

If this is true, and I have reason to believe that it is, then:

1) The “HGA” is not a separate entity from our “Self”.
2) The “HGA” *is* a separate entity from our “Ego”.
3) No particular form of ceremony is required to achieve K&C.
4) Practice of pranayama and/or mantra and/or barbarous invocation
[or some other intensive practice] *is* required to achieve K&C.
5) K&C is a “state of mind”, out of which one can slip after the
initial attainment. Repeated use of the techniques in (4) can
be used to reenter the “state”.
6) Ones “HGA” *may* give one a superior mantra or method for
achieving the “state”.
7) Eventually, one should be able to maintain the “state” for
increasingly longer periods of time such as to be (almost)
always in K&C.
8) At this point, the practice of pranayama should be
sufficient to maintain/restore the “state”.
9) Persistance in the practice of pranayama beyond the point
of K&C is likely to result in “Crossing the Abyss” and

A few more observations: the “HGA” *may* speak whatever language(s)
you do, BUT this would be a *translation* of a conceptual level which
transcends language. “Conversation” with the “Angel” involves the accurate
*conversion* between the concepts of the Neshamah and the symbols of the
Ruach, and vice versa. The study and use of qabalah or any other applicable
formal system can facilitate accurate translation. In Socrates' case, the
terminology of his philosophical pursuits satisfied this need.

However, the “HGA” *may* use some other means of communication than
language, such as visions, images, dreams. It is possible that language
would overly limit the ability of the “HGA” to communicate. Quite possibly
*all* channels/senses would be utilized, including language, vision,
sound, smell, taste, touch. Could even be like an acid trip, only making
more coherent sense ;-)

I think that attaining the K&CofHGA is much simpler than one would gather
from studying Crowley. Though note that this does not imply that it is any
easier to accomplish. I hope, though, that my effort at cutting through
the apparent complexity makes it easier for *those who aspire* to *get
started with the practice*, rather than get hung up on trying to figure
out how to proceed.

93 93/93
Tau Aleph
Ecclesia Gnostica Universalis

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Jon Auviere on Monday April 16, @10:54AM
>This would\\
make sense of the fact that one “loses” ones “angel” upon the\\
accomplishment of “Crossing the Abyss”.\\
What makes this a “fact”?\\
>Conversation implies a duality,\\
two entities talking.\\
Perhaps if they were “opposed”–but even then it is over-generalizing. And it leaves out the question of “Silent Speak”.\\

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Tau Aleph on Monday April 16, @11:51AM
Point 1)\\
Crowley's description of the work of the Adeptus (Exemptus) in One Star in Sight makes this clear:\\
“Completes in perfection all these matters. He then either (a) becomes a Brother of the Left Hand Path or, (b) is stripped of all his attainments and of himself as well, even of his Holy Guardian Angel, and becomes a Babe of the Abyss, who, having transcended the Reason, does nothing but grow in the womb of its mother.” (emphasis added).\\
Point 2)\\
Duality means only “twoness”. It does not require “opposition”. I don't know what you mean by “Silent Speak”, but if you mean speech w/o vocalization, then I would still consider this as within the range of meaning of the word “talking”.\\
93 93/93\\
Tau Aleph\\
Ecclesia Gnostica Universalis\\

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Jon Auviere on Monday April 16, @01:19PM
First, the quote you refer to in One Star in Sight applies to an adept who refuses to become a Magister Templi. It does not imply that the act of 'union' with or if you like, 'K & C' of, HGA –which I (as most people) deem as two of the same things – is in any way associated with “losing” one's angel. And if I read your essay correctly that is what you have suggested.\\
Regarding the term “conversation”: perhaps you should consult a dictionary. It can mean anything from a simple observation, conduct, behavior, to an oral exchange of ideas. In other instances it is simply 'to keep company with' or 'to live'; esp. concerning a 'real-time interaction' which is not restricted to oral vocalisation.\\
At any rate, conversation clearly does not have to be a dual effort. I could throw a few ideas around in my head or simply look outside and call that a pleasant conversation, which is more than I can say for most conversants out there.\\

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Tim Maroney on Monday April 16, @01:28PM
You are mistaken. The person who is stripped of the HGA in the quote from “One Star in Sight” is the person who has chosen to give up all and become a Babe of the Abyss, not the person who refuses the Ordeal of the Abyss.\\
In addition, “perhaps you should consult the dictionary” is a deliberately rude statement in this context. Please refrain from personal attacks and insults here. They are not appreciated.\\

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Tau Aleph on Monday April 16, @01:55PM
I have to disagree with you. The quote is with reference to “Crossing the Abyss”. Option (a) does, as you say, apply to an adept who refuses to cross the abyss and become a Magister Templi. Option (b) applies to an adept who does choose to cross the abyss and become a Magister Templi.\\
I do not believe that “Union with the HGA” (which I have not at all mentioned) should be considered the same as “Knowledge and Conversation of the HGA”, any more than the “Vision of the HGA” (attributed to Malkuth) should be considered the same as K&C. The “fact” that you were questioning was the losing of the angel, for which I provided a supporting reference. You may question my conclusion if you like, but please try to be clear about which you are doing.\\
I also don't understand why you are attempting to pick nits about the meaning of the word “conversation”? I am using it in the way in which it is most commonly used, whereas you are using a less commonly used meaning apparently just to pick an argument with me. Why?\\
In any case, just because there are multiple definitions of a word, doesn't mean that when someone uses the word in context, that more than one definition must apply. For example, if I say so-and-so is a magician, you would not require that they be both a practioner of magick AND a stage magician? So your attempt at argument is based on a logical fallacy….\\
93 93/93\\
Tau Aleph\\
Ecclesia Gnostica Universalis\\

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Jon Auviere on Tuesday April 17, @08:53AM\\
[In the Shells.]\\

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by <Xnoubis> on Tuesday April 17, @09:17AM
Oh, good grief.\\
If you ever decide to listen to anything anyone else says, I hope it will be this: go ahead and advance your own ideas (some of which are interesting), but keep your opinions of other people (all of which are boring) to yourself.\\

  • |Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
    by Jon Auviere on Tuesday April 17, @10:13AM

    Yep, it's all my fault. I'm the big jerk who doesn't over-sentimentalize and water down every opinion I have as to drown in my own vomit.\\
    Morals are nice for guilt-complex. I just love it when “Thelemites” adopt them!\\

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Tau Aleph on Tuesday April 17, @09:32AM
Main Entry: con·ver·sa·tion\\
Pronunciation: “kän-v&r-'sA-sh&n\\
Function: noun\\
Etymology: Middle English conversacioun, from Middle French conversation, from Latin conversation-, conversatio, from conversari to associate with, frequentative of convertere to turn around\\
Date: 14th century\\
1 obsolete : CONDUCT, BEHAVIOR\\
2 a (1) : oral exchange of sentiments, observations, opinions, or ideas (2) : an instance of such exchange : TALK b : an informal discussion of an issue by representatives of governments, institutions, or groups c : an exchange similar to conversation\\
Here is Merriam-Websters definition. I see that the “CONDUCT, BEHAVIOR” definition is clearly marked obsolete. There is no definition which includes your 'to keep company with'. All the other definitions mention “exchange”, which implies more than one party, so your example of “throw a few ideas around in my head or simply look outside and call that a pleasant conversation” is simply misuse of the word.\\
Also, I notice that you didn't answer my question as to why you feel it necessary to fault my use of a word which I have used in a perfectly correct and appropiate way. That is, as Tim say, deliberately rude, and I am not the only one who perceived it that way.\\
So, rather than answer my question, you continue to insult me. Plus you don't bother to give an email address so I can send you a private reply.\\
IMO, you are a jerk, and you are too dense to see that you are purposely being offensive. Apparently you have no particular reason for doing so, or at least none that you care to share.\\
93 93/93\\
Tau Aleph\\
Ecclesia Gnostica Universalis\\
P.S. Xnoubis, I think changing the site to require login and use of a verified email address would keep this sort of thing off Beastbay.\\

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Thelemick Knight on Monday April 16, @03:22PM
Duality means only “twoness”. It does not require “opposition”. I don't know what you mean by “Silent Speak”, but if you mean speech w/o vocalization, then I would still consider this as within the range of meaning of the word “talking”.\\
The so-called “duality” is a necessary part of the process. One cannot simply assume that the HGA *is* one with its host. A illusionary separation must take place in order for the magician to have the experience. Bakhti Yoga is a great way to cause that separation. Later, there is another practise to effect the Union.\\

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by Rikki LaCoste on Monday April 16, @09:00PM

Well, if we're going to be technical about things, to review the universal phenomenon of Knowledge and Conversation with the Holy Guardian Angel throughout all times and cultures, one discovers that it cannot be likened to a Samhadic experience as much as it is a Kundalini Shakti manifestation.

Think of it in these terms: if the experience is real, then it must be universal, and there must be wide-spread accounts of the experience in all societies. Within the comparative literature, we find that the Pentecostal Christian experience of being overcome by the cleansing fire of the Holy Spirit is one of them. Another is the Tantric experience of Kundalini rising. Another group of examples come from Gnostic experiences of attaining Godhead, or meeting God face to face. There are also similar precedents from psychotherapy to Goetic and Enochian examples.

The reason the K&CofHGA cannot be likened to Samadhi is because to attain it, one achieves the overwhelming sensation of “No-Otherness”. In other words, the world becomes suddenly transparent. One becomes omniscient. The self realises itself as the universe. The microcosm becomes the macrocosm.

In the experiences of HGA, there IS a tremendous sensation of otherness and fire and cleanliness, as if one were in the presence of a powerful god or goddess. Also, it is possible to attain this experience spontaneously. It is for this reason that in all examples, on is urged to prepare vigorously, and clear the channels, before attempting Knowledge and conversation.

There are many speculations about who is the HGA. Is it the universe itself? Is it a god or angel? Is it an extraterrestrial or extra-physical being from another place? Is it the inner and true self? Tantra and Liber AL assure us that “Otherness” is the great illusion. There is nothing else but the self. So let's entertain this premise and go on to the next point. The Sephiroth.

Qabalah has often been referred to as the “Yoga of the West”, and for good reason. A cursory comparison of the Qabalistic Tree of Life and the Chakra system shows an exact replica between the spheres on the Middle Pillar of Equilibrium and the Spinal column (Sushumna channel); the Pillar of Severity and the Ida channels; the Pillar of Mercy and the Pingala Channels.

Conversely, Tantra is known as the witchcraft or the occult of the Orient. It entirely straddles and influences Yogic and Hindu cultures, and is suspected to be much older than the two. Kundalini manifestation is one classic example of a Tantric practice, as is Hatha Yoga and Hindu Shiva Puja. What's more, the Tantric scripture “Rudra-Yamala” states that the Kundalini is “ever the master of Yoga … the mother of Yoga … the bestower of Yoga.”

Kundalini Shakti rests as pure potentiality in the base of the spine. When awakened, it uncoils and ascends through the central channel, burning through all impurities on its way, passes through the Chakra conduits, enflaming them, and spurts out through the Brahmic Fissure at the crown of the head. Christians who have experienced this sometimes unbearable phenomenon feel like they are on fire, and at its climax, feel a tongue of fire on the top of their heads. In all cultures the sensation of a powerful entity other than themselves is present in some form, and bestows upon them paranormal powers and otherwise impossible spontaneous understanding of matters they have never learned. The Tantric scripture “Hatha-Yoga-Pradipika” states that “The yogin who stirs the [Kundalini] shakti comes to enjoy paranormal abilities. What more need be said? Like {child's] play he [or she] conquers Kala [time or death].”

It is for these very reasons that rigorous preparation has, in all cultures, been unwaveringly urged for such an experience. It is so tremendously powerful and potentially dangerous that if one is not prepared, and is spiritually impure (or perhaps psychologically stressed or Qliphotically afflicted?), the experience may permanently damage kill. As the energy encounters impurities on its ascent, it is forced into other channels, and burn away at the impurities until they are dissolved, and continues the ascent upwards until released. Such unprepared ordeals can sometimes last months of pain and suffering on all levels, from physical to mental to psycho-spiritual.

An Awakened One by the name of Gopi Krishna suffered a spontaneous ascent when he was younger. I record here excerpts from his chilling event:

“My face became extremely pale and my body thin and weak. I found a distaste for food and found fear clutching my heart the moment I swallowed anything. … My restlessness had assumed such a state that I could not sit quietly for even half an hour. When I did so, my attention was drawn irresistibly towards the strange behaviour of my mind. Immediately the ever-present sense of fear was intensified, and my heart thumped violently. … [Kundalini generated such tremendous heat] causing such unbearable pain that I writhed and twisted from side-to-side while streams of cold perspiration poured down my face and limbs. … There were dreadful disturbances in all the organs, each so alarming and painful that I wonder how I managed to retain my self-possession under the onslaught. The whole delicate organism was burning, withering away completely under the fiery blast racing through its interior. … I knew I was dying and that my heart could not stand the tremendous strain for long. My throat was scorched and every part of my body flaming and burning, but I could do nothing to alleviate the dreadful suffering. If a well or river had been near I would have jumped into its cold depths, preferring death to what I was undergoing. … I racked my distracted brain for a way of escape, only to meet blank despair on every side. The effort exhausted me and I felt myself sinking, dully conscious of the scalding sea of pain in which I was drowning.”

- Gopi Krishna, from “Kundalini: the Evolutionary Energy in Man” (Boston and London: Shambhala Publications, 1997)

The American psychiatrist Lee Sannella explains the experience of pain during such a phenomenon as the forced dissolution of stress points:

“In the course of its upward motion, the kundalini is held to encounter all kinds of impurities that are burned off by its dynamic activity. … In particular, the Sanskrit scriptures mention three major structural blockages, known as 'knots.' … We can look upon these blockages as stress points. Thus, in its ascent, the kundalini causes the central nervous system to throw off stress. This is usually associated with the experience of pain. When the kundalini encounters these blocks, it works away at them until they are dissolved.”

- Lee Sanella, from “The Kundalini Experience” (Lower Lake, California: Integral Publishing, 1992)

In any case, with “impurities” dissolved, whatever they are, vision and sensation are cleared, and like Samadhi, one wakes a third eye, and sees the universe closer to its true form. This is where the paranormal abilities are manifested, and wisdom comes in whatever form.

Because of its nature, it is specifically an energy of equilibrium, as it ascends up the centre, or the Middle Pillar. The Middle Pillar is also called the Pillar of Equilibrium and the Pillar of Beauty, and it is named after Tiphareth. This is why Knowledge and Conversation with the Holy Guardian Angel may best be represented as Tiphareth rather than Kether. Kether is the dimensionless universe. All is one unit. There is no “Otherness” until Chokmah and Bina splits from it.

Kether may be Samadhi, whereas Kundalini is Tiphareth, and HGA is Kundalini Shakti.

Love Rikki
Blessed Be and 93

Rikki LaCoste is the founder of a pan-esoteric organisation called Psychopomp. He also co-moderates Psychopomp's e-Group at [email protected] . The Psychopomp webpage is http://pansophia.tripod.com/

Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
by Jon Auviere on Tuesday April 17, @08:51AM
“It is impossible to lay down precise rules by which a man may attain to the K & C of his HGA; for that is the particular secret of each one of us; a secret not to be told or divined by any other, whatever his Grade.”\\

  • |Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
    by Tau Aleph on Tuesday April 17, @09:34AM\\|

    And this is a quote from?\\

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by <Azag> on Wednesday April 18, @06:58AM

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

From One Star in Sight:
“It is impossible to lay down precise rules by which a man may attain to the knowledge and conversation of His Holy Guardian Angel; for that is the particular secret of each one of us; a secret not to be told or even divined by any other, whatever his grade. It is the Holy of Holies, whereof each man is his own High Priest, and none knoweth the Name of his brother's God, or the Rite that invokes Him.”

As an aspiring student of Thelema and its various incorporated systems, it is of great value to me (and probably others) to be presented with just such topics as “Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel” in this very practical form.

Being that my private studies haven't yet included any yogic practice ,or any substantial ritual work at all past the Lesser Pen. Banishing, Resh and Mass, and very basic pathworkings - I will not attempt comment on the nature of the sephiroth as they may apply to the K&C of others - and do to the time considerations involved with gleaming higher meaning from private investigation and practice or grade prerequisites/testing/initiation/work - it is of massive importance that one gets solid initial chances to observe these conversations and their respective view points, to inspire and direct their(my) own fledgling understanding and appreciation of the path towards application.

While I am familiar with the Abramelin System, Liber Yod, and the Sephiroth - it was interesting to find (while reading John St. John) how A.C. incorporated any, and almost every facet of his existence into the process of gaining the K&C.
Not to mention the various Goetic, Yogic and Tantric practices, Eating, walking, sleeping - almost every action was consciously measured in its erythematic utilization.

Interestingly enough, his personal system of gaining the K&C seems sometimes far removed from the somewhat romantic Abramelinic methods of fasting and purification that I am more familiar with and attracted to. Clams, Coffee, Cognac and Cigars for anyone who crosses the Abyss.

I hold nothing but utter appreciation and submit that my own personal experience concerning Thelema and it's community at large would be lessened if not for this forum. Rather than project any of my own technically shallow (mis?)understanding on the nature of attaining the K&C, I'll digress to A.C.'s work (again from J. St. John):

“The Next Step for humanity in general was then “the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.”
One thing at a time.
But here he finds himself discussing and disputing with himself the nature of that Knowledge.
Better far act as hitherto, and aspire simply and directly, as one person to another, careless of the critical objections (quite insuperable, of course) to this or any other conception.
For as this experience transcends reason, it is fruitless to argue about it.”

“Like Count Fosco, I shall “go on my way sustained by my sublime confidence, self-balanced by my impenetrable calm.”

Love is the law, love under will.


**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by Frater UT on Wednesday April 18, @09:17PM


I picked up the idea somewhere that K%C with the HGA was distinct from the Union with the HGA. That Tiphereth being the balance of matter and spirit enabled the candidate to enter into a relationship with SELF(HGA), I speculate from the title of the Grade 'Ipsisimus' and it's allusions to finally becomeing oneself, that the Kether initiation is the union with the angel, then you are that divine spark fully realized.

Frater UT

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by <RIKB> on Sunday April 22, @09:04PM


I'm curious – where are people getting this idea of union with the HGA? I don't recall ever reading anything about this in Crowley's works. Is this something that people kick around informally, or is there a source (Crowley or otherwise)I've missed?

93 93/93

  • |Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel\\
    by Jon Auviere on Monday April 23, @10:57AM

    You might try Crowley's essay, “The Revival of Magick” for starters. It can be said that union comes inevitably afterwards following the K & C. But union itself has many forms.\\

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by <Aion> on Tuesday July 31, @09:10PM


Sr. RPSTOVAL says:

“Or does it mean:

2. Once the experience (Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, or K&C) has been ascertained that the practitioner perceives things with a conciousness more alikened to that of Tiphareth?”

My reply:

IMHO. Yes.

QBLH printed a comment of mine on this very point at:


Io Pan

Aion 131

**Re: Samadhi vs the Holy Guardian Angel**
by W.Alobar Greywalker, aka Frater PVN on Wednesday August 01, @06:17AM

Allow me to speak 100% from personal experience. Crowley may have said other things, but ypu cn always lok that up.

For me, K&C of HGA can occur anywhere on the Tree, but seems to be easiest when I reside in Tiphareth.

Direct experience of my angel is easiest when I manage to reside in Daäth. Does my angel reside in Daäth? Hard to say. Possibly off the Tree altogether, but Daäth seems to be the place wherein my angel is most herself.

Union with my angel (which I feel is far more like samadhi than mere K&C) seems to be a Kether phenmenon.

I am not in Kether much. I am far more at home in Daäth. So I play duality games with my angel in Daäth. Much like the tantric dialogs between Shiva & Shakti.

Don't know if any of this helps, or just obfuscates further.


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