A Mail Interview With Coyote2 and Kali52


USA, 1989

The following questions were ones that eye found most often posed to me from friends and such who knew ov meye involvement with TOPY. Eye decided that since MANUAL would serve a decent purpose by being a touchstone for thou publick to find out more about Thee Temple, eye would conduct a brief mail interview with two ov thou individuals with whom eye have had contact at TOPYUS in Denver.

Kali 52:

Question: How can we bring thou recognition ov thou need for ritual to Amerikans from all walks ov life?

Answer: Bringing recognition for the need for ritual to Americans in general is not the main concern but to continue to penetrate all forms ov mass-pop culture, aiming specifically at the youth ov the country, who have not been thoroughly indoctrinated by society. Thru these means, slowly attention will be focused on what ritual exists and the need for a continuance.

Q: Can you think ov any examples ov intuitive magick in which non-TOPY people would recognize from their daily lives?

A: Eye believe every one possesses an intuitive sense about what goes on around them—it is just a matter ov awareness ov one's self and the realization ov your validity and power. Once this happens, you becoum freed to experiment and explore the limits ov what you can make possible.

Q: Any ideas on world wide expansion ov TOPY as a social and personal force? What leads a person to sigilize? What can keep a person from sigilizing?

A: Thee Temple is expanding on a world wide level. Now, we are not born into tribes, but have the means to choose stylistically and culturally what tribe to be a part ov. Using technology to disseminate tribal identity and value structure makes it possible for people to align themselves. Choosing levels ov involvement becoums important at this point. A sigil becoums a continuation ov will meshing with desire. Taking part in a ritual that is shared thru out the tribe. This is one way to invest power in yourself and explore the programming. Making these sorts of changes in your emotional structure is one ov the risks we are discouraged from taking.

Q: Any suggestions for people from all walks ov life which might enrich them or open their eyes (anything from media, specific mental/physical/psychic exercises, any experiments/observations?)

A: People that want to open their eyes do and those who want enrichment find it to fit their needs. Part ov thee process is the search.

Q: There has been talk from publick ov TOPY being elitist, and snobbish. Can you state your views on such a judgment and what relevance it might have, if any, to Templars and publick alike?

A: All judgments are subjective and reflect the mind set ov the speaker. TOPY is elitist in that it requires that those who align themselves show a commitment to the power we all share. The choice belongs to those standing at . the threshold ov the open door.

Q: Sumthing you would like to express along the theme ov NEUROMANCY and Other Alternatives?

A: Magick is as each individual defines it. Decide what you want and what alternative means. Empower yourself with this and join will with desire to make those things you want happen. Magick and Alternatives to me are forming a tribe—community to which each individual brings their strengths, explores common links, and creates support structures that allow continual exploration and change.

Coyote 2:

Question: Why was there a switch from Eden to Coyote and what is thou significance ov these and Kali? Why should these names be revealed only to Templars?

Answer: (Transcribed from tape) The switch from Eden to Coyote, on a bureaucratic level was made because the growth in London, or TOPY Central, is such that one could never really know what Eden numbers were available at any given time and it would lead to confusion and double numbering. Coyote's a trickster god, is very North American, we've sought for a North American feminine name, and it just hasn't happened. So, at this point, we're consider changing the name of females to Coyote as well, pending a vote amongst people that have been named. Kali is a war-like female, Hindu god-form. And basically it represents feminine power, both magickal, destructive, and basically it seems like a lot of women in our culture are missing a fierce aspect to their personalities and that this is a very strong female image. And that, perhaps if women use an image of a strong, very violently, almost, sexual female energy that perhaps they could start to cultivate that within themselves. The reason that these names should be revealed only to TOPY people seems pretty academic, to me. People are dealing with a lot of very personal matters, and that they should have the right to talk about everything, which can only be done, really if their doing it on a confidential level. If they chose to reveal information that they're revealing, that's fine. We just guarantee them that we won't reveal it to anyone, if they want to reveal to somebody, then that's their problem, really. Or, their choice, rather.

We get accused of being elitist and snobbish, I think that that's absurd, anybody can be part of what we're doing, and we're probably the least elitist organization based on magick in the world. Who else makes all of their information available, to anyone? Granted, it might cost money, but it costs us money to reproduce it. There's no secrets, everything, basically, that's done within TOPY, the information from that is available to anyone that's outside of TOPY. A few exceptions, which are basically based around the fact that people who are putting in information, for example, on their sexuality based on the sigil process, we don't feel, basically out of respect for the people who are putting data into that bank of information, if you like, we just don't feel that information should be available to people who don't contribute to the gathering of it. Anybody can read a book about other people getting rid of their fears and their hang-ups and growing. I don't think that its fair to those people who've conquered the fear of exposure or ridicule to let people who haven't gotten over their mistrust have a right to the information that we have gotten on the basis of that trust.

I have a great objection to the words TOPY and flat people which is creating an Us and Them. I think that the idea being that a person within TOPY is developing a fully three-dimensional character with depth, and that many people do not have depth. But, the more I look around me, the more I realize that all people have some degree of depth, and it's that degree that we're trying to reach. I think that basically people calling us elitist and snobbish, generally are people that don't really know anything about our organization or don't know anything about any other organizations that are working along similar lines to us. I think that if they check groups, which this is no offense to any of these other organizations, mind, but amongst pagan and wicca type groups there's three degrees. And there's information available to the third degree which isn't available to the first and second degrees. The same is very much true with organizations such as the O.T.O., and I would guess the Church of Satan, all of these organizations have what you would call a hierarchy. The hierarchy in TOPY is based on the amount of work you do within TOPY, and the people who, for example, send the most information in turn get access to the most information. People who work in the office get access to the information that is in the office, and so on and so forth. It's basically the more you work the more you get, and that can be taken on a personal level as well. The more that people explore themselves the more that there going to get out of themselves, and its hard work.

Q: What are sum ov thou purely Amerikan occulture aspects, that is— what meaning can we obtain from thou deathculture, if any, in terms ov personal/general analogies, and magick?

A: I think that thee so-called New World is a perfect model ov thee best and worst aspects ov Western Culture. I have recently been reading a book by Angus Calder entitled Revolutionary Empire which is a history ov thee English Speaking World from 1500 to 1780. When White people first landed here, they found a paradise. Vast land, natural resources and thee potential for total freedom. And I'm not talking about thee “freedom” we're always killing to defend. If people had not been so greedy, a truly libertarian society could have been set up by Networking with the Natives. Their sense ov Personal Liberty and Magick could have been combined with our technological knowledge to create a new social order. We all know what happened instead. This is thee land ov dreams. Ov Liberty, ov thee fast buck, ov nature, ov potential, ov asylum. These dreams persist, despite overwhelming historical evidence that this country is not, has never been, any more free than anywhere else. Our social structure is more open to upward mobility, thee nouveau riche receive as much respect as those with “old money” and thee middle class is to some extent tolerated in higher social circles. Most European societies have a much stricter boundary between thee various social classes.

We are more self-reliant than most other cultures, thee focus is much more on thee Power ov thee INDIVIDUAL than thee herd here. People then to be much less sheltered here. Our still-vast Wilderness areas have left us with thee opportunity to explore Nature and to have a closer relationship with true Wildlife than most other cultures. In Europe, open fires and tent camping are totally prohibited in National Forest areas, you can only camp in KOA style places with barbeques, toilets, etc ….

I feel that WILDNESS in one thing that most Americans (and by this term I include Canadians as well as Central and South Americans) still possess, and in thee US our government is desperately trying to breed this trait out ov us. People who are truly self reliant make poor pawns. Big Brother can't use people who can take care ov themselves. Americans do not generally think in terms of what is best for society, they think ov their own priorities. This is very dangerous to totalitarian, collectivist societies.

There is a vast history ov Magick in thee relatively recent past, when you think that in Colorado, for instance, there were still very wild Natives running around just over a hundred years ago. In Europe, thee last traces ov Shamanism basically disappeared with thee Roman Conquests 2000 years ago. So that current is still very accessible here and can be tapped into with a minimum ov trouble. There are still some people around who are genuine Initiates ov this Current.

Since Thee advent ov White People, there have also been a huge number ov cults here, some quite successful like Scientology and thee Mormons, even in thee early colonies, some Puritans went off into antinominalism, which says (to oversimplify a tad) thee God speaks to each person personally through that person, and that any experience can be a religious experience, including sexuality, etc . . ., This is probably thee factual basis behind thee Persecution ov thee so - called Witches. So, to sum up, thee US is very diverse and holds a lot ov historical precedents for thee magician, both “do's” and don'ts ….

Q: Has there been any thought to a central HQ or collective for Templars to live, work, educate, ritualize, be self-sufficient, and exist as an example ov an alternative society. What about national/regional gatherings?

A: Money precludes thee establishment ov a TOPY community—at present, thee community must remain separated in body and united only in dreams and common purpose. This has its plus side, though, in that thee inevitable personal squabbles that would arise in a community are avoided, allowing thee Network to grow and mature to a size and strength that such pettiness will be unable to destroy when we finally do get a place. In England, plans are underway for a Big House, a communal living place which will also include video, audio workshops as well as access to tools such as word processing, etc …. TOPYUS does have an annual camping trip for our closest allies. It has proved a great way to get thee most dedicated ov us together to work and play together.

Q: How can we, as Templars, overcome any negative stigma generated by our works in flat culture, that is—how can we be clear about any common interests and aims to a society which has a seven second attention span?

A: I feel that its inevitable that we will be misunderstood by thee majority ov people in our culture. We have to try to find thee lowest common denominator, something like thee feeling that there is no way out ov thee cycle ov working a stupid job to pay bills for things we really don't need, or thee idear that it's wrong to hurt people, or that we need to be more in touch with thee earth, not out ov any sentimental reasons, butter merely because you can't shit in your own nest! These are things that a surprising number ov “straight” people can relate to, and TOPY is just our particular means ov trying to solve these problems. If we make it clear, BOTH to ourselves and to others, that there is no US or THEM, it's people who are afraid or lonely, trying to find some sort ov sense in this confusing world we've created for ourselves. Then you suddenly find that everyone that has half a brain or soul can relate to what we're trying to do. We just have to cut through thee big words and theoretical bullshit and speak from thee heart. And people understand that. They may not agree with our methods, butter they realize that we're on the same side, that we don't want to hurt anyone. We're all thee same, really. That's a really important thing to remember—we may be thee good guys, butter there is no “ENEMY”, except greed, lack ov foresight, callousness, which is really just a defense against fear. FEAR IS THEE TRUE ENEMY! Behind all thee missles and concrete we are a race ov terrified, lonely children. And I think it's that side ov people that we have to appeal to.